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Wayne Morris:
It seems like they are promoting a strategy of tension where they are funding both sides
and basically profiting from the resultant conflicts that they are fomenting.
Fritz Springmeier:
One could go on and on. For instance Heinrich Mueller who was head of the Gestapo -
you will notice that at one point he took an old Jewish family and he himself had to
personally carry their suitcases to his own car and when he got them to the Swiss border,
he carried their suitcases. The Swiss bodyguards by the way, were laughing seeing the
head of Gestapo helping an old Jewish family escape Nazi Germany. When the listener
out there starts seeing these kinds of things, now that you have heard me talk, you can
begin to realize that there is a hidden level out there, way beyond what the common
person is allowed to see at that Illuminati level. These are the people who are
collaborating behind the scenes where you have Catholics and Protestants and Jehovah's
Witnesses and Mormon leaders - you think these people are at each other's throats - but
they are key Illuminati people who are secretly collaborating.
Wayne Morris:
In talking about the Illuminati, I think a number of people may have difficulty believing
that there is a Unified Liberal Conspiracy to control the world. Even myself, up until
recently, until I started researching into the mind control, I thought the Illuminati was a
fictitious group. In doing your research about the Illuminati, what were some of your
other sources of information besides the people on the inside that had escaped?
Fritz Springmeier:
My sources, besides my eye witnesses, were interviewing a number of honest law
enforcement and private investigators - in fact some of these people are still ongoing
friends of mine. Over the years I have studied thousands of books, and thousands of
documents which has meant going to special libraries, such as the Genealogical Library
at Salt Lake City. I have interviewed and worked with many therapists and I have taken
off and travelled to sites where programming is done, where rituals are done, where
crimes have been committed. For instance in Washington state, a number of hours from
here, there is a full scale replica of Stonehenge. Below this replica of Stonehenge which
sits on a hill, is a cemetery a number of feet away and Illuminati rituals are done at that
cemetery. That's an example of a place that I have gone and looked at for myself.
I need to bring in another concept here that is important to research. It's not all simply
just getting a lot of interviews and the facts because the raw facts aren't going to do it.
When I was in college and I was taking counselling, the psychologist who was teaching
the class gave some excellent advice. He said, "when you are listening to people or
examining a situation, don't look at the details but look at the process. The details may
throw you for a loop because people will lie, they will give contradictory information. Look
at the process." That's a very good principle. What I have been doing is analyzing a lot of
raw data, raw facts and interview information, and I have been putting together a
coherent puzzle. That means you have to overlook a lot of disinformation.
Wayne Morris:
In the late seventies there was a certain amount of information about CIA mind control
that came out to the public, and I would like to know what you think are the problems
inherent in trying to prove the existence of mind control to a general audience through
government documentation?
Fritz Springmeier:
The problems with trying to expose things through government documentation are one,
the documentation has been destroyed or tampered with and to get the government
involved in exposing these things, what you are basically doing is asking a bunch of
criminals, that's what they are even thought they work in government positions, to
expose themselves with paperwork. That's just not the way things work. When we think
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