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294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com`dRevandeli situacia 2003 wliskote kemulariasTan, romelmacgiorgi abaSiZearcTu didi xnis winaT „gamarjvebulisaqarTvelo” datova, „qronika+~-masaubari, rasakvirvelia, giorgi SaqaraSvilis mkv-lelobiT daiwyo da Semdeg respondents irakli oqruaSvilispartiidan wamosvlis mizezebzec CaekiTxa. ise, unda aRiniS-nos, rom batoni kemularia, saqarTvelos yvela moqalaqismsgavsad, 19 wlis fexburTelis tragediiT uzomod aRSfoTe-bulia da mkveTr gancxadebebsac akeTebs. metic: pirad wyaroebzedayrdnobiT Cveni respondenti ramdenime saintereso in-formaciasac asajaroebs da acxadebs, rom qveyanaSi dResarsebuli politikuri viTareba Zalian hgavs 2003 wlis noem-bris, anu im situacias, roca maSindel prezidents garemocvaarwmunebda, rom yvelaferi kargad iyo, Tumca, sabolood, Se-vardnaZe iZulebuli gaxda, Sin wasuliyo.„qronika+~ gTavazobT inter-vius kote kemulariasTan:_ batono kote, Tqveni azriT,Sesabamisi uwyebebi da, saerTod,xelisufleba„SaqaraSvilissaqmes” ratom ar xsnis?_ xelisufleba yovelTvis ra-Racaze igeba. ai, magaliTad, an avtoritetisZalaze igeba, rocaganmsazRvreli principebi ekonomikaa,anu xalxis keTildReoba.aseve arsebobs qurdebisa da kriminaluriavtoritetebis meSveobiTmarTva, romelsac Cveni mosaxleobaSimSilze metad ar egueba. esivaniSvilma moskovSi iswavla, anuaseT adamianebTan urTierTobayovelTvis hqonda, rac damaluliaravisTvisaa. saerTod, rusulioligarqia amaze dgas _ kriminaluriavtoritetebi erTmaneTsgavlenis sferoebisTvis xocaven.amisTvis maT fuli sWirdebaT daoligarqebs ekvrebian. aqedan gamomdinare,ruseTSi yvela oligarqsTavisi kriminaluri wre hyavs.ivaniSvilma yvelaferi es aq gamoiyenada saTaveSi vxedavT kalaZes,aseve parlamentSia kobiaSvili.garda amisa, vxedavT moWidaveebsada sxva sportsmenebsac. maT qveviTsxvebi dganan da a. S._ ukacravad, yvelafer amas„SaqaraSvilis saqmesTan” ra kav-Siri aqvs?_ roca es sqema odnav maincgaibzareba, mmarTveloba ingreva!sawyali SaqaraSvili _ es angeloziviTbavSvi da, marTlac, varskvlavTbiWuna,msxverpli gaxda. amassamarTalSi eqscesi hqvia, anu arsebobsversia, rom yvelaferi gogosgamo daiwyo. es, sxvaTa Soris,am asakSi Cveulebrivi ambavia... mokled,es klani Tu jgufi viRacamimisTvis gamoiyena, rom am patarabiWisTvis, romelic, marTlac,arafer SuaSi iyo, angariSi gaesworebina.jandabamde gzac hgoniakalaZesa da sxvebis erTmaneTTangarCevebs _ iq milionebis gayofazeasaubari da es Cven ar Segvexeba,magram Tu davakvirdebiT, esZalebi nebismieri Cvenganis Svilebsada SviliSvilebs emuqrebian,anu iqidan gamomdinare, rom dausjelebiarian, xval movlen da mogvklaven!xom naxeT, rom igive naZaladevSimagaT gareSe araferi xdeboda_ manqanebis „vazvrati”, Cxubida policias maTi SiSiT Caicver daulevia. asea yvela raionSida yvelafer amas rodemde undavuyuroT?!_ e. i., zonderjgufebs xelisuflebamxolod politikuri opo-nentebis winaaRmdeg ki ar iyenebs,am kunTmagari „sastavebis” msxver-pli SesaZloa, is adamianic gaxdes,romelic politikaSi saerTod arereva, ara?_ formula, daaxloebiT, ase-Tia: es zonderjgufebi eubnebian,_ Zmao, Sen arCevnebSi xom dagexmare.hoda, manqanebis „vazvrati”iqneba Tu sxva rame, fuli undagavakeTo, magram Sen miSveb daarafers meubnebio. albaT, gaxsovT:jabas dros iyo _ sami dRiTraionebSi manqanebis mosaparavaduSvebda xolme. sxvaTa Soris, rocaCingiz yaeni romelime qalaqsaiRebda, jars sami dRe aZarcvinebdaxolme. erTi sityviT, Cveulebriviambavia _ roca kriminalurzonderjgufs politikurimiznebisTvis iyeneb, mere „saZovarze”unda miuSva. am SemTxveva-Sic ase moxda, anu SaqaraSviliraRac quCuri garCevis msxverpligaxda, romelSic damsjeli jgufimonawileobda. am jgufma icoda,rom aravin dasjida! diax, isinidausjelebi arian! jer mxolodori ambis Sesaxeb gavigeT, romSaqaraSvilis garda, adre naZaladevSiviRacebs Tavi gautexesda Tirkmeli dauglijes, magramkidev bevr rames gavigebT. bolosda bolos, ager, deputatis SvilidaiWires, rac JurnalistebisgamoZiebas mohyva! saerTod, yoCaR,Tqven, Jurnalistebs _ am sazogadoebisRirseuli warmomadgenlebinamdvilad xarT! Jurnalisturmasaqmianobam ganapiroba, romSaqaraSvilis garda meore saqmecgaixsna, mesamec gaixsneba da Tuyvelani ase erTad davdgebiT, ma-Sin am Wirs moviSorebT, Toremsxvanairad mxolod SigniT ki ara,saerTaSoriso asparezzec Zaliandidi safrTxe gvemuqreba!_ zogs es paraleli ar moswons,magram sazogadoebis umete-soba Tanxmdeba, rom, Tavis droze,„girgvlianis saqmiT” „nacionalebis”dasasrulis dasawyisi dai-wyo. „ocnebas” „SaqaraSvilissaqme” CamoSlis?_ am utvinoebis xelSi ukve mexuTe„girgvliani” gvyavs! sxvaTaSoris, Zalian sando wyaro meubneba._ ras geubnebaT?_ biZinas ukve uTqvams, _ jandabamdegza gqoniaTo! is berazecgabrazebuli yofila._ ratom?_ is Tavisi gamoucdelobiTgavlenis qveS iyo. „naxalovkelebi”,Turme, gaiZaxian, magari „loxi”gvyavs daWerilio. Turme, berasamaTTvis manqanebi aqvs nayidi daTveSi 25 aTassac uricxavda. esgairkveva _ yvelas „qarTus” sakreditobaraTi udevs jibeSio, magramTu es marTlac asea da ivaniSviliambobs, jandabamde gza hqoniaTo,e. i. Zalian gabrazebulia.kote kemularia:`sando wyaromeubneba, biZinasuTqvams, jandabamdegza gqoniaTo!~male vnaxavT, „ocneba” ra saxesmiiRebs._ mainc, ra saxes miiRebs?_ Tu politikuri mmarTvelobamoiSala, maSin SeiZleba, mTlianadqurdebs Caabaron. amas kobaxiZenamdvilad izams, radgan is kalaZisWkuaze dadis. kalaZe ki maSinac qurdebisWkuaze dadioda, roca fexburTsTamaSobda da axlac asea._ e. i., Zalian cud realobaSivarT?_ diax, Zalian. simarTle giTxraT,aseTi mkveTri TiTqmis arasodesvyofilvar, magram am saqmembevri rame gamoamzeura, anu kidevar megona, rom ase zevidan qveviTiyo dalagebuli da policiac SeSinebuliiyo. sxvaTa Soris, „mxedrionis”dros policia Zalian SeSinebuligaxldaT, magram maSin struqturaSivmuSaobdi da aseT ubadrukdReSi im drosac ar yofila._ Tu oqtomberSi xelisuflebaar Seicvala, krizisi gaR-rmavdeba?_ visac es qveyana aseTi raRacebisTvisZalian ar gvemeteba, yvelaferiunda gavakeToT, rom normaluriarCevnebi Catardes! arCevnebSieseni udavod damarcxdebianda amas yvela xedavs._ aseTi darwmunebuli ratomxarT?_ aq saubari politikaze aRaraa.zogi ambobs, fuls miscemeno, magramfuls vin jandabas miscemen?_ mokluli axalgazrdebis mSoblebsada naTesavebs? am qveyanaSiiseTi aravin darCa, vinc daCagruliar iyos! xom naxeT, policielidazaralebuli biWis dedas urekavs,modi, dawere, rom Sens Svilski ar scemes, aramed daeca da sxeulisdazianeba ise miiRoo._ „tv pirvelis” JurnalisturgamoZiebaze saubrobT, saidanacnaTeli gaxda, rom ramdenime wliswin SaqaraSvilis saqmis figuran-tebma sxva axalgazrdasac scemes,romelic sikvdils SemTxveviTgadaurCa?_ diax. iciT, yvelafer amas rahqvia?_ ra?_ morCa, damTavra, CamovediT!_ ukacravad, „sad CamovediT”?_ anu amiT yvelaferi naTqvamida damTavrebuli!_ SeiZleba, asea, magram, batonokote, ai, swored maSin, roca qvey-anaSi aseTi qaosia, „gamarjvebulsaqarTvelos” tovebT. sxvaTaSoris, aRniSnuli partiidan romwamoxvediT, irakli oqruaSvilicixidan axali gamosuli iyo.hoda, ra moxda?`naxalovkelebi~, Turme, gaiZaxian, magari `loxi~gvyavs daWerilio. Turme, beras amaTTvismanqanebi aqvs nayidi da TveSi 25 aTassacuricxavda. es gairkveva - yvelas `qarTus~sakredito baraTi udevs jibeSio, magram Tu esmarTlac asea da ivaniSvili ambobs, jandabamdegza hqoniaTo, e. i. Zalian gabrazebulia. malevnaxavT, `ocneba~ ra saxes miiRebs~_ Cvens qveyanaSi iseTi ambebixdeba, rom es Tema, mgoni, gadamwyvetiaraa, magram vinaidan interesiarsebobs, ki batono, visaubroT.„gamarjvebuli saqarTvelo”,didi xnis konsultaciebis Semdeg,bevrma adamianma SevqmeniT da ma-Sin davTqviT, rom yvelani TanabarniviqnebodiT._ anu?_ prezentaciaze TiTqmis 50-mdelideri gamovCndiT._ sxvaTa Soris, Tavdapirvelad„gamarjvebuli saqarTvelo” par-tia ki ara, moZraoba iyo._ diax da partia arc unda yofiliyo,anu Tavidanve gamovacxadeT,rom es liderTa platformaiqneboda, romelic gansxvavebuliSexedulebebis admianebs gaaer-Tianebda. sxvaTa Soris, yvela amadamians sxvadasxva gza hqonda gavlili.amasTan, zogierTi maTganierT dros erTmaneTTan dapirispirebuliciyo, magram es gaxldaTmodeli, Tu rogor SeiZleba,rom dapirispirebulma adamianebma,romlebic samSoblos emsaxurebian,erTiani platforma Seqmnan._ am platformis Seqmnis miza-ni ra iyo?_ mizani is iyo, rom masSi racSeiZleba meti adamiani gagveer-Tianebina. yvelaferi es ki ra saxesmiiRebda, momavlis saqme iyo,magram xazs vusvam, rom es partiaar unda yofiliyo. Tavad iraklioqruaSvilic winaaRmdegi gaxldaT,rom gaerTianebas xelmZRvanelihyoloda._ am platformis Seqmnis ideavisgan wamovida?_ oqruaSvili CemTan araerTxelmovida da yvelaferi ase daviwyeT.mokled, gadawyda, rom amplatformas Tavmjdomare ar eyoleboda,Tumca spikeri me viqnebodi.erTi sityviT, gvindoda, amgaerTianebiT gveCvenebina, rom rocasaqme qveyanas exeba, erTad dgomaSegviZlia! samwuxarod, xelisuflebamirakli oqruaSvili yovelgvarisafuZvlis gareSe daiWira._ ise, batono kote, roca amplatformas qmnidiT, minimum,uaxloesi warsulisTvis Tvaliunda gadagevloT, anu imis Tqmaminda, rom oqruaSvilis opozici-ur flangze gamoCena yovelTvispatimrobiT mTavrdeboda da ra-tom ar uSvebdiT, rom axlac asemoxdeboda?_ verafers gamovricxavT, magramadamians, praqtikulad,araferi amZimebda da amitom, ar8 N15 (317) 14.07-20.07.2020 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.comnoembris viTarebas Zalian hgavs...~velodiT, rom xelisufleba briyvuladquCaSi daetakeboda da daapatimrebda.aman zemoxsenebuliidea, ra Tqma unda, seriozuladdaaziana da sabolood, yvelaferi,samwuxarod, erT partiamde davida,anu swored iman, rom iraklicixeSi iyo, warmoSva azri, isTavmjdomare gamxdariyo, radganes misi, rogorc lideris, politikuriniSniT dapatimrebas gaamyarebda._ am ideas daeTanxmeT?_ diax, Tumca gubaz sanikiZe davaleri gelbaxiani ar daeTanxmnenda moZraobaSi TavianTi moRvaweobaSeaCeres, anu yrilobaze ar movidnen.sxvaTa Soris, yvelas gvjeroda,rom irakli cixidan aucilebladgamovidoda. megobrebma dakolegebma vTqviT, roca iraklicixidan gamova, isev davsxdeT dayvelaferi gavakeToT, rom didiplatforma aRvadginoTo. samwuxarod,iraklis cixidan gamosvlisSemdeg es ver moxerxda._ ratom ver moxerxda? sxvaTaSoris, guram CalagaSvilma,romelic axlac „gamarjvebulsaqarTveloSia”, Tqveni misamar-TiT socialur qselSi dawera,cixidan gamosvlis Semdeg iraklistelefonzec ar dalaparake-biao. es simarTlea, batono kote?_ ukacravad, guram CalagaSvilivin aris?_ davijero, CalagaSvils aricnobT?_ vicnob, magram arc ammoZraobaSi iyo da arc damfuZnebeliyofila._ SeiZleba, magram is, rogorcvici, oqruaSvilis megobaria._ megobroba gasagebia, magrammsaxurTuxucesia Tu dacvis rolsasrulebs? irakli oqruaSvilsCemgan CalagaSvilis apekunoba arsWirdeba! Tu ramis Tqma unda,irakli TviTon ityvis da rogormeCven davilaparakebT. briuselidandawyebuli, araferi damitovebiada yvelaferi gavakeTe, rom iraklicixidan gamosuliyo da ar mgonia,iraklis rame aseTi Sexedulebahqondes._ batono kote, konkretuladmiTxariT, cixidan gamosul oqru-aSvilTan komunikacia gqondaT?_ me da iraklim visaubreT daiyo piroba, rom SevxvdebodiT daamas ganvixilavdiT, magram, samwuxarod,ver SevxvdiT._ ra unda gangexilaT an erT-maneTs ratom ver SexvdiT?_ biWebi erTmaneTs unda SevxvedrodiTda gvezruna, rom isrealoba aRgvedgina, romliTacdaviwyeT. saerTod, mizans romdaisaxav, im mizniT unda iaro!_ mizani gasagebia, magram erTiwlis winaT, roca moZraoba „gamarjvebulisaqarTvelo” dafuZn-da, sxva realoba iyo, axla ki sxvamocemulobaa da am situaciaSiSarSandeli status-kvos aRdgenasazri eqneboda?_ ra Tqma unda. roca sworia,azrs wona da safuZveli yovel-Tvis aqvs. saerTod, is mizani armaqvs, rom viwro partiuli interesebimqondes._ anu?_ imaze ar vfiqrob, rom gindaTu ara, parlamentSi unda movxvdemeTqi.swored aman ganapiroba „gamarjvebulisaqarTvelodan” CemiZalian koreqtulad wamosvla.`kriminaluri avtoritetebi erTmaneTs gavlenis sferoebisTvis xocaven.amisTvis maT fuli sWirdebaT da oligarqebs ekvrebian. aqedan gamomdinare,ruseTSi yvela oligarqs Tavisi kriminaluri wre hyavs. ivaniSvilmayvelaferi es aq gamoiyena da saTaveSi vxedavT kalaZes, aseve parlamentSiakobiaSvili. garda amisa, vxedavT moWidaveebsa da sxva sportsmenebsac. maTqveviT sxvebi dganan da a. S~_ es gadawyvetileba sponta-nurad miiReT?_ velodi, rom am Temaze visaubrebdiT._ da es saubari ratom arSedga?_ ar vici. es baton iraklisunda hkiTxoT._ oqruaSvilma icoda, rompartiis datovebas apirebdiT?_ ar vici. xom geubnebiT, romam Temaze ar gvisaubria._ e. i., Tqveni gadawyvetilebisSesaxeb mediiT Seityo?_ albaT. sxvaTa Soris, gancxadebagavagzavne, rom movdiodi._ iqidan gamomdinare, rom par-tia datoveT, avtomaturad opoz-iciis im gaerTianebasac gamoeT-iSeT, romelic leiboristebisofisSi ikribeba xolme?_ diax. im magidasTan „gamarjvebulsaqarTvelos” warmovadgendi.axla ki damoukidebeli politikosivar, upartio, Tumca politika-Si yofnas vagrZeleb da Tu opoziciaSiimis elementi gaCndeba, romCemTan isaubron, siamovnebiT SevuerTdebi._ Cvens qveyanaSi opozicia mra-valferovania. TqvenTan saubrissurvili opoziciis romelma fr-Tam SeiZleba gamoTqvas?_ prodasavlurma, anu im frTam,sadac is politikosebi iqnebian,romelTac ar surT, rom saqarTveloruseTisken wavides da 90-ianwlebs daubrundes. saqarTvelosdRis wesrigs gavrilovebi ar undaganusazRvravdnen! 20 ivnisismonawile var _ maSin mTeli Rameiq viyavi da Cemi mamoZraveblebi axalgazrdebiarian, romelTa TxovniTacpolitikaSi vrCebi!_ yvelaze gamokveTili prodasavluriplatforma „naciona-lur moZraobasa” da „evropulsaqarTvelos” aqvs. romelimesTankomunikacia gqondaT?_ ara!`verafers gamovricxavT, magram adamians,praqtikulad, araferi amZimebda da amitom,ar velodiT, rom xelisufleba briyvuladquCaSi daetakeboda da daapatimrebda. amanzemoxsenebuli idea, ra Tqma unda,seriozulad daaziana da sabolood,yvelaferi, samwuxarod, erT partiamdedavida, anu swored iman, rom irakli cixeSiiyo, warmoSva azri, is Tavmjdomaregamxdariyo, radgan es misi, rogorc lideris,politikuri niSniT dapatimrebas gaamyarebda~_ arc romelime sxva opoziciuripartiis liders Sexvedrix-arT?_ Sexvedra sam ZalasTan mqonda,magram es ar niSnavs, rom Cvenrame gaerTianebaze visaubreT._ miTxariT, konkretulad, visSexvdiT?_ ai, magaliTad, daviT WiWinaZes,romelic Cemi didi xnis megobaria,Tumca politikaze saubariar yofila. ufro cxovrebas-Tan dakavSirebul Temebze visaubreT._ SeiZleba, es megobruli Sex-vedrebi iyo, magram roca arCevnebamdeZalian cota droa darCenili,politikosebis aseTi SexvedrebimediisTvis, cxadia, sain-teresoa! ise, batono kote, opoziciamirakli oqruaSvilis pa-timroba saerTaSoriso asparezzedividendebis misaRebad xom argamoiyena?_ ver vityvi, rom asea. elCebs,maT Soris, evroparlamentarebsac,vxvdebodi da vici, rom oqruaSvilsmxardaWera hqonda. sxvaTaSoris, briuselSic viyavi da sworedyvelaferma aman CamoayalibasaerTaSoriso xedva, rom oqruaSvilipolitpatimari iyo da, saboloojamSi, ganTavisufldakidec. mokled, imis Tqma, rom isvinmem gamoiyena, mgoni, adekvaturiaraa, an raSi unda gamoeyenebina? _es erToba gverdiT daudga, cixidanrom gamosuliyo da dRes iraklioqruaSvili politikur saqmianobaSiaqtiuradaa CarTuli._ ar mgonia, politikaSi mTladaqtiurad iyos CarTuli, rameTuganacxada, rom rogorc maJori-tarobis kanidati, kenWs ar iyris._ Tavidan amaze saubari iyo. immolaparakebis Sedegebze iraklisada sxva liderebs Soris araferivici, magram idga sakiTxi, rom irakli,rogorc opoziciis lideri,maJoritarobis kandidati yofiliyo._ gamoricxavT, rom oqruaSvilsmaJoritarobis kandidato-baze merabiSvilis faqtoris gamoeTqvas uari? maTi, jer kidev,wlebis winandeli dapirispirebisSesaxeb, wesiT, sxvaze meti undaicodeT, batono kote._ vici, ra Tqma unda, magram amfaqtors ar mgonia, dRevandelo-basTan rame kavSiri hqondes._ ise, garkveuli periodi arCandiT, magram, batono kote,bolo wlebis qarTul politika-Si erT-erTi mniSvnelovani figuraxarT, rasac 2003 wlis movle-nebic mowmobs _ bolos da bolos,„vardebis revoluciis” win mosk-ovSi waxvediT, rasac ivanovisCamosvla da SevardnaZis gadadgo-ma moyva._ roca moskovidan davbrundida amaze xmauri atyda, „pirvelarxze” Cemi vizavi laSa nacvliSviliiyo._ anu?_ maSin uSiSroebis komitetisTavmjdomaris pirveli moadgileiyo da, maxsovs, mkiTxa, ziuganovsSexvdiTo? moskovSi wasvla akrZaluliaravisTvisaa._ diax, magram im dros, rocapolitikuri procesebi duRda,ruseTis dedaqalaqSi savaWrodrom ar waxvidodiT, amas lapara-ki rad unda?_ geTanxmebiT, magram ar minda,detalebze visaubro. ubralod,xom SeiZleba, iseTi viziti iyos,romelic yvelasTan, maT Soris,saerTaSoriso megobrebTanaa SeTanxmebulida qveynis interesebisTvisswored is sargebeli mohqondes,rom Cven msoflios absoluturadcivilizebuli nawiliviyoT! sxvaTa Soris, igive movlenebsvuaxlovdebiT da dRes 2003welze saubari im adamianebmac daiwyes,romlebic amas kategoriuladgaurbodnen. mokled, maSin SevardnaZesmxolod dasavleTidanki ara, mgoni, kosmosidanac afrTxilebdnen,rom arCevnebi ar gaeyalbebina,magram es ar Seismina, anugaremocva arwmunebda, opoziciada dasavleTi vinaa, Cven yvelaferiSegviZliao._ dRevandeli xelisufebispoziciac amas xom ar hgavs?_ amdeni saerTaSoriso werilismiuxedavad, „ocnebas” zereledamokidebuleba aqvs!_ SeiZleba, magram modiT, miTx-ariT, maSin ivanovi saqarTveloSiTqven CamoiyvaneT?_ ara! ivanovi sakmaod didifigura iyo saimisod, rom me Camomeyvana.sxvaTa Soris, „vardebisrevoluciis” Semdeg ruseTSi el-Cad daviniSne da erTi dRiT adre,sanam ivanovi baTumSi Cafrindebodada abaSiZes waiyvanda, vivaraude,xval an zeg baTumSi maRalirangis pirovneba Cava da abaSiZesmoskovSi waiyvanen-meTqi. asec moxda...erTi sityviT, is, rac maSinxdeboda, dRevandel viTarebas Zalianhgavs _ viRacebi amboben, araferiSeicvleba, radgan Zlieriada „ocnebas” fuli aqvso, magramSevardnaZe gacilebiT Zlieri iyoda arc mis garemocvas hqonda naklebifuli, magram vnaxeT, yvelaferirogorc damTavrda. saer-Tod, roca movlenebis ganviTarebisswori kursi arsebobs, es politikurprocesebzec zemoqmedebsda amis Sedegs Semodgomaze vixilavT.SeiZleba, yvelaferi SemodgomiTar dasruldes, magram aseTSemTxvevaSi dRis wesrigSi, didialbaTobiT, Sualeduri arCevnebissakiTxi dadgeba._ ratom?_ legitimaciis gamo..._ vnaxoT... mokled, warmatebebsgisurvebT, batono kote!N15 (317) 14.07-20.07.2020 w.9
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