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giorgi abaSiZe 294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com is, rom sasamarTlo Tanamedrove saqarTvelos mTavari tkivili da „aqilevsis quslia”, dasamali ar aris. metic, be- selia-zardiaSvilis „saparlamento ringma” isic naTelyo, _ sasamarTlo xelisuflebaze gavlena rom ar dakargon an moi- povon, yvelaferze wavlen. amiT ki, cxadia, xalxi zaraldeba, anu sanaxaoba kargia, magram usamarTlobiT Sewuxebul adami- ans marto sanaxaoba ver daapurebs! `sasamarTlo arsebobs Tu ara Seqmnili situaciidan gamosavali? _ Tbilisis saqalaqo sasamarTlos yofili Tavmjdomare, mamuka axvlediani, „qronika+~-sTan saubrisas abobs, rom gamosavali politikuri nebaa. amasTan, axvlediani iniciativiT gamodis, rom politikurma jgufebma erTgvari manifesti miiRon da piroba dadon, rom sasamarTlo sistemas aucileblad Secvlian! rac Seexeba uzenaesi sasamarT- los mosamarTleobis 20-kacian sias, marTalia, axvlediani ko- nkretul pirovnebebze arafers ambobs, magram ganmartavs, rom es adamianebi samarTals ver aRadgenen, radgan bevr maTganze gamo- Ziebac unda iyos dawyebuli. mokled, eSveleba Tu ara rame qarTul sasamarTlos? _ „qronika+~ Tbilisis saqalaqo sasa- marTlos yofil Tavmjdomares, mamuka axvledians esaubra: _ batono mamuka, Cveni saubari, bunebrivia, mosamarTleobis kandidatebs Seexeba, amitom amTav- iTve gkiTxavT, Tqveni azriT da SefasebiT, „ocneba” am odiozuri mosamarTleebisTvis Tavs ratom iklavs? _ „ocnebas” unda, rom sasamarTlo gaauqmos. _ es rogor? _ sasamarTloSi gansaxilveli sakiTxebi politikosebze iyos damokidebuli da mosaxleobas sasamarTlos ndoba ar hqondes! saerTod, postsabWoTa, ufro sworad, ruseTis tipis qveynebSi swored ase xdeba. mokled, am adamianebis uvado mosamarTleebad daniSvniT Cvenc, daaxloebiT, aseT Sedegs miviRebT. _ es gasagebia, magram piradad me mainc ar mesmis, „ocnebas” is odiozuri adamianebi risTvis sWirdeba, vinc wina xelisuflebis dros yvela gaxmaurebul saqmeSi figurirebda? nuTu, axlandel xelisuflebas daaviwy- da, rom „nacmoZraoba” swored usamarTlo sasamarTlom gadaiy- ola? _ „ocneba”, albaT, ase fiqrobs: am sakiTxma Cems imijze SeiZleba, cudad imoqmedos, magram is berketi, rasac sasamarTlo hqvia, Zalian didi xniT diskreditebuli iqnebao da amiT, praqtikulad, mTeli institutis diskreditacia moxdeba. yvelaferi es ki investiciebzec imoqmedebs da qveyana- Si mxolod iseTi politikuri fuli Semova, romelic samar- Talze ki ara, garkveuli adamianebis keTil nebazea damokidebuli. xom xedavT, biznesmenebTan saqmis garCevebi rogor xdeba _ zogs yuric ki moaWames. mokled, sabolood iseT qveynamde mivalT, sadac sasamarTlos imedi aravis eqneba da yvelas ecodineba, rom am qveyanaSi ra da rogor unda iyos! _ da es rusuli scenaria? _ SeiZleba, pirdapir rusuli scenari ara, magram mmarTvelobis igive stilia! _ rusuli mmarTvelobis kul- tivirebiT „ocnebas” dasavleT- Tan problemebi xom Seeqmneba, miT umetes, im fonze, roca civ- ilizebul msoflioSi samar- Tliani sasamarTlo demokrati- is fundamentad iTvleba? _ ki batono, asea, magram es xelisufleba dasavleTs am kuTxiT, mgoni, yuradRebas aRar aqcevs. rac SesaZlebeli iyo, rom dasavleTs eTqva, yvelaferi Tqva. bolos da bolos, aSS-s saxelmwifo departamentmac ki gaakeTa gancxadeba, magram amas mniSvneloba ar aqvs. ise, wesiT, im adamianebis mimarT, romelTa gasaubrebac parlamentSi ukve Catarda, gamoZieba unda mimdinareobdes. _ ratom? _ isini amis wina iusticiis sabWos wevrebi iyvnen da Zalian bevri kazusi swored maSin moxda. maT mier warmoebul da ganxilul saqmeebze aRarafers vambob. erTi sityviT, is, rac xdeba, yovlad warmoudgenelia. _ dakveTa, rom es adamianebi uvado mosamarTleebi aucileblad unda gaxdnen, ivaniSvilisgan modis Tu yvelaferi zard- iaSvil-maTikaSvilebis axirebaa? _ davalebis micema Cemi yuriT ar momismenia, magram SeuZlebelia, rom yvelaferi es ivaniSvilis gareSe xdebodes. yovel SemTxvevaSi, aseTi tipis gadawyvetilebas sxva veravin miiRebs. aqamdec bevrjer miTqvams da axlac gavimeoreb, rom es mafiaa, romelic mxolod erTi sistemis nawili ar aris, anu am sistemaSi saxelebsa da gvarebs mniSvneloba ar aqvs. Sesabamisad, axla aTkacian sias warmoadgenen, mere _ sxva sias da yvela imas Seasrulebs, rasac daavalben. es xalxi amaze Tanaxmaa! _ batono mamuka, am sistemas Signidan icnobT da gecodinebaT, rogor unda daingres? _ mTavaria politikuri neba, anu sistemis dangrevis survili unda arsebobdes. vimeoreb: sistemuri problema mxolod saxelebsa da gvarebSi ar aris! arsebobs garkveuli sqemebi, maT Soris, mosamarTlebis socialuri uzrunvelyofis da swored es sqemebi unda Seicvalos, Torem kosmetikurad mxolod adamianebis Secvla realur Sedegs ar moitans. _ es sistema, rogorc vxvdebi, wina an, sulac, imis wina xelisuflebis dros Seiqmna, amitom ra mniSvneloba aqvs, xelisufleba- Si vin mova? Zalaufleba xom neb- ismiers ryvnis! _ ver dageTanxmebiT. _ ratom? _ ki batono, wina xelisuflebis drosac cnobili iyo, rom sasamarTloSi problemebi arsebobda, magram ara _ am tipis. _ aba, rogori tipis problemebi iyo? _ maSin sazogadoebam ar icoda, rom es problemebi sistemuri iyo. axla ki yvelaferi Zalian TvalsaCino gaxda da sasamarTlo- Si arsebuli problemebi bevrma politikurma jgufma sakuTar Tavze iwvnia! Zalian bevr poli- mamuka axvlediani: `uzenaesi sasamarTlos mosamarTleobis kandidatebis saparlamento mosmena farsia!~ tikosTan, sazogadoebis warmomadgenelsa Tu dainteresebul adamianTan misaubria, romelmac es problema gaiTavisa. aseTi adamianebis ricxvi TandaTan izrdeba, radgan „ocnebis” mmarTvelobis dros sasamarTloSi arsebuli problemebi, rogorc giTxariT, ufro TvalsaCino gaxda. aqamde sasamarTloSi garkveuli reforma tardeboda da aqedan gamomdinare, iTvleboda, rom cudi raRacebi mxolod ramdenime adamianis gamo xdeboda, magram axla sazogadoebam dainaxa, rom ase araa, qveyanaSi sistemuri problemaa da Tu es ar mogvardeba, problemas, pirvel rigSi, politikosebs Seuqmnis! yvelaferi ki sakonstitucio umravlesobebis Sedegia, anu aseT dros xelisuflebaSi myofi politikuri Zala fiqrobs, rom yvelafris ufleba aqvs. rogorc ki saqme koaliciur mTavrobamde miva, darwmunebuli var, politikosebi pirvelad swored saamarTlo sistemaze daiwyeben saubars! _ am parlamentma uvado mosa- marTleebis es Semadgenloba rom daamtkicos, 2020-Si mosul mmarTvel gunds an, sulac, koaliciur xelisuflebas am mosamarTleebis Secvla xom gauWird- eba? _ Tu politikuri neba iqneba, SesaZlebelia, rom sxvadasxva tipis komisia Seiqmnas da am mosamarTleebis saqmianoba gamoiZios, Tumca mTavari mainc isaa, rom sasamarTlo Signidanaa Sesacvleli! giTxariT da kidev geubnebiT: mxolod adamianebis cvlilebiT, Tu sqemebi ar Seicvleba da yvela sakiTxis marTvis berketi Signidan ar gaCnda, Sedegi ar dadgeba! _ asea Tu ise, batono mamuka, Tqveni saubridan iseTi STabeWd- `Senebis dros daSvebuli Secdomebi SedarebiT dasaSvebia, vidre - axla, roca "ocnebam" icoda, problema sad iyo, Tavis droze am problemas ebrZoda, magram xelisuflebaSi mosvlis Semdeg es problema Tavisad gadaaqcia, anu wina xelisuflebis dros, ase vTqvaT, mozelili comidan saSineli puri gamoacxo!~ ileba meqmneba, rom samarTliani sasamarTlo kidev karga xans ar gveqneba, radgan sistemur cvlilebas wlebi dasWirdeba. vcde- bi? _ ver vityvi, rom amas wlebi dasWirdeba. _ aseTi imedi ris safuZvelze gaqvT? _ sabednierod, sasamarTloSi arian adamianebi, romlebic ar Canan, magram SesaZlebelia, rom maT pozicia Seicvalon. _ anu? _ darwmunebuli var, rom isini namdvilad samarTlianebi iqnebian, Torem sistemis iqamde miyvanas, rogoric sinamdvileSi sasamarTlo unda iyos, ra Tqma unda, wlebi dasWirdeba. diax, es erT- Tviani procesi araa. Tu yvelafers erTi politikuri jgufi erT dReSi Secvlis, amas isev saTavisod gaakeTebs. _ batono mamuka, is mosa- marTleebi, romlebic, Tavis droze, „nacionalebis” navSi isxdnen, „ocnebaSi” ratom gada- portirdnen? maTze kompromatebi arsebobda da axalma xelisu- flebam ase „daaverbovka”? _ wina xelisuflebis dros yvelaze didi Secdoma e. w. SerCeuli mosamarTleebi iyvnen. _ es ras niSnavs? _ mosamarTleebad garkveuli tipaJebi irCeodnen da maTi maxasiaTebeli pirovnuli Tvisebebi ar iyo, anu mosamarTle raRacis nawili unda yofiliyo. ise, mosamarTlisTvis mxolod codna sakmarisi ar aris da swored amitom Zalian bevr qveyanaSi garkveul saqmeebs iuristebi ki ara, sxva profesiis admianebi ixilaven. mTavaria, es adamianebi principulebi iyvnen, swori pozicia hqondeT da vinmeze ar iyvnen damokidebulni. mosamarTleebis SerCeva CvenTanac ase unda xdebodes. sxvaTa Soris, Cems dros iyvnen 8 N30 (291) 1.10-07.10.2019 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com Signidanaa Sesacvleli!~ mosamarTleebi, romlebic gamamarTlebel an principul gadawyvetilebebs iRebdnen da maT zogierTi kolega pirdapir eubneboda, ase ratom iqceviT, Cvenc uxerxul situaciaSi gvayenebTo. mokled, es adamianebi mxolod sakuTar keTildReobasa da Zalauflebaze zrunaven, riTac garkveuli jgufi sargeblobs da, vimeoreb, yvelafer amiT sasamarTlo im situaciamdea misuli, rom Tqmac ki aravis sWirdeba, ra unda gaakeTos. maT zustad ician, Tu rogor asiamovnon xelisuflebas! _ e. i., zemodan ar modis konkretuli davaleba, am da am saqmeze aseTi gadawyvetileba gamoitaneTo? _ ara, aseTi sqema ar muSaobs. sxvaTa Soris, ase wina xelisuflebis dros kontroldeboda, Torem axla ufro cudi sqema muSaobs _ romel saqmeze da rogorc moundebaT, iseT Sedegs iReben imitom, rom winaaRmdegobas aravin gamoTqvams. maT zustad ician, ra unda gaakeTon da isic ician, Tu amas ar gaakeTeben, Zalian cud Sedegs miiReben da didi problemebi eqnebaT. ise, sazogadoebam, mgoni, Cems magaliTze Zalian kargad dainaxa, Tu ra SeiZleba mohyves principul saubars. _ davalebebis Sesrulebaze rom daTanxmebuliyaviT da xma ar amogeRoT, uzenaesi sasamarTlos mosamarTleobis kandidatTa 20- kacian siaSi iqnebodiT? _ es ar vici, magram SemoTavazeba zustad es iyo. _ anu ra? _ amas ratom Svrebi, ra problema gaqvs da ra gWirdebao? mokled, Tu wynarad viqnebodi, merwmuneT, gacilebiT ukeT da ukeTes poziciaze aRmovCndebodi! _ batono mamuka, uvado mosamarTlis daTxovis meqanizmi arsebobs, Tu samarTlianoba rom aRdges, isev ukanonobis Cadena mogviwevs? _ diax, garkveulwilad, ukanonobasTan mivalT, Tumca sxva meqanizmebic arsebobs. _ konkretulad? _ es adamianebi SesaZloa, ar ganTavisufldnen, magram im kategoriis saqmeebis ganmxilvelebi gaxdnen, rasac imsaxureben, anu martiv saqmeebs vgulisxmob. mokled, yvelaferi droTa ganmavlobaSi Tavis adgilas, rogorc ityvian, daileqeba. _ ise, gulwrfelad Tu vi- tyviT, sazogadoebis farTo masebs mosamarTleebis Tema maincdamainc ar aRelvebs da ufro politikuri wreebi aqti- uroben. amas riT xsniT? _ samwuxarod, postsabWoTa sivrceSi samarTlianoba ar yofila da amitom amis mniSvneloba rigiT moqalaqeebs ki ara, politikur jgufebsac ar esmiT. _ ras niSnavs, „ar esmiT”? _ igive moqalaqeebi fiqroben, rom am kuTxiT verafers Secvlian da amitomac hgoniaT, rom sasamarTlos cvlileba mxolod politikis Secvlis SemTxvevaSia `mosamarTleebad garkveuli tipaJebi irCeodnen da maTi maxasiaTebeli pirovnuli Tvisebebi ar iyo, anu mosamarTle raRacis nawili unda yofiliyo. ise, mosamarTlisTvis mxolod codna sakmarisi ar aris da swored amitom Zalian bevr qveyanaSi garkveul saqmeebs iuristebi ki ara, sxva profesiis admianebi ixilaven. mTavaria, es adamianebi principulebi iyvnen, swori pozicia hqondeT da vinmeze ar iyvnen damokidebulni. mosamarTleebis SerCeva CvenTanac ase unda xdebodes~ SesaZlebeli. amas garda, sazogadoeba imasac miaCvies, rom misi moTxovnisa da survilis miuxedavad, araferi icvleba da yvelaferi mainc ise iqneba, rogorc viRacas unda. yvelaze cudi swored esaa, rom am qveyanaSi moqalaqeebis roli nulovania da maT azrs aravin iTvaliswinebs. _ e. i., Tu sazogadoebis mZlavri protesti iqneba, xelisufleba daTmobaze wava da uzenaesi sasamarTlos mosamarT- leobis am kandidatebze uars ityvis? _ am wuTas amis piri ar Cans. Tu daakvirdebiT, bolo dros am qveyanaSi protesti Zalian bevr sakiTxze iyo, magram Sedegi ar dadga, piriqiT. amitom sazogadoeba fiqrobs, rom cvlilebisTvis politikuri jgufis Secvlaa saWiro! _ CvenSi darCes da, ukeTesi viTareba arc am mxriv gvaqvs, anu imas vambob, rom politikuri jgufebis umetesobac odiozuria. Sesabamisad, xalxSi nihil- izmia! _ gasagebia, qveyanaSi aseTi realoba gvaqvs, magram odiozurs yvelas namdvilad ver davarqmev. yovel SemTxvevaSi, politikuri jgufebis mniSvnelovan nawils cvlilebebis ganxorcieleba Seu- Zlia. _ odiozurSi, iciT, ras vgulisxmob? _ ai, magaliTad, xalxs ar sjera, roca usamarT- lo sasamarTloze da, zogadad, usamarTlobaze wina, anu im xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebi saubroben, ra drosac araerTi usamarTloba moxda. _ mesmis, magram kidev erTxel vityvi: Zalian bevr seqtorSi mec am sistemis nawili viyavi da amitom politikur jgufebs ar davubrundebi, magram maSin is yvelaferi sxva ganwyobis gamo xdeboda, axla ki sul sxva ramis gamo xdeba. maSin sistema iqmneboda da Zalian bevri Secdoma amitom davuSviT. Sesabamisad, Senebis dros daSvebuli Secdomebi SedarebiT dasaSvebia, vidre _ axla, roca „ocnebam” icoda, problema sad iyo, Tavis droze am problemas ebrZoda, magram xelisuflebaSi mosvlis Semdeg es problema Tavisad gadaaqcia, anu wina xelisuflebis dros, ase vTqvaT, mozelili comidan saSineli puri gamoacxo! _ mokled, vTanxmdebiT, rom sistemis dangreva Zalian rTu- lia, ara? _ diax, politikurma jgufebma swored es unda gaigon, rom mxolod garedan muSaoba sakmarisi araa da dasayrdeni Zala sasamarTlos SigniT aris sapovni. sxvaTa Soris, Zalian bevria iseTi, romelmac mosamarTleobaze an uari Tqva, an amaT aRar daniSnes, Tumca SesaZlebelia, rom es adamianebi sistemaSi dabrund- nen. _ e. i., ambobT, rom arian ise- Ti mosamarTleebi, romlebic sistemas Signidan daupirispird- ebian? _ modiT, ase getyviT: am politikur situaciaSi da garemoSi xmamaRla saubari Zalian rTulia! isev Cems magaliTs vubrundebi: problemebze xmamaRla saubari ra Sedegs iZleva? Tu vinme saubars daiwyebs, problemebi Seeqmneba _ sistemidan gauSveben da rame socialuri garantia maTze ar gavrceldeba. swored amitom Zalian bevri iZulebulia, Cumad iyos da sasamarTlo sistemaSi arsebul problemebze araferi Tqvas! _ mokled, Tu problemebze saubars Tavad mosamarTleebi ar daiwyeben, e. i., CixSi varT? _ yvelafers politikuri jgufebis moTxovna da Tundac sakanonmdeblo doneze cvlilebebis ganxorcieleba sWirdeba. es imas miscems biZgs, rom sasamarTloSi TviTwmenda daiwyos! _ anu mosamarTleebs garantiebi unda hqondeT, rom usa- marTlobaze saubris SemTxvevaSi ar daisjebian? _ Tu vinmes ukanonoba aqvs Cadenili, amaze isaubrebs da ar daisjeba, es kidev ufro maxinj formas miiRebs, magram arian adamianebi, romlebsac Zalian bevr rameSi ar aqvT miRebuli monawileoba. sxvaTa Soris, Zalian bevr qvey- `es klani marto sasamarTlos ki ara, prokuraturasa da finansur jgufebsac marTavs! misi sacecebi Zalian bevr adgilzea modebuli!~ anaSi, roca araerTi mosamarTle ganTavisuflda, sasamarTlo Tavidan Camoyalibda. am Temaze saubari ucxoel kolegebTanac mqonia. mokled, yvelafris Secvlis berketi arsebobs. mTavari politikuri nebaa. es neba „ocnebisa” da ramdenime partiis garda yvela politikur jgufSi arsebobs. ise, politikurma jgufebma, Cemi azriT, erTiani manifestic unda miiRon, anu imis piroba dadon, rom sasamarTlo sistemas Secvlian, Torem am situaciaSi yvelaze daucvelad biznesi grZnobs Tavs. _ ratom? _ aseTi tipis sasamarTlos dros pirvel dartymas swored biznesi iRebs, rasac vxedavT. sxvaTa Soris, Zalian bevri saqmis ganxilva gaCerebulia, korufciamac moimata. yvelaferi es ki biznessa da, Sesabamisad, am qveynis yvela moqalaqeze Zalian cudad aisaxeba. _ batono mamuka, uzenaesi sasamarTlos mosamarTleobis kandidatebis saparlamento mosmenebi or Tves gastans. Tu bese- lia-zardiaSvilis incidentiT vimsjelebT, am ori Tvis ganmavlobaSi Cveulebrivi sacirko san- axaobis momswreni gavxdebiT? _ yvelaferi es farsia! _ anu? _ mosamarTleobis kandidatebis aranairi SerCeva da maTTan gasaubreba ar xdeba! ubralod, kargia, rom mosaxleoba am adamianebs xedavs da am procesis dadebiTic es aris, Torem yvelaferi gadawyvetilia! ase iyo pirveli instanciisa da saapelacio sasamarTlos Camoyalibebis drosac. uzenaesi sasamarTlos SemTxveva- Si ki ufro Tavxedurad gamouvidaT, anu yvelas imedi, yovel SemTxvevaSi, iluzia hqonda, rom uzenaes sasamarTloSi swori adamianebis daniSvna moxdeboda da amiT qveda instanciebSi arsebuli situacia Seicvleboda, magram imaTaviTve vicodi, rom es iluzia iyo da darwmunebuli viyavi, uzenaes sasamarTlosTan dakav- SirebiTac zustad is moxdeboda, rac qveda instanciebSi moxda! parlamentma uzenaesi sasamarTlos mosamarTleobis jer sam kandidats mousmina da Semi- Zlia giTxraT, rom SeuZlebelia, am adamianebma odesme samarTlianoba aRadginon! isini pirovnebebi ar arian. isini gadawyvetilebebs ar iReben! SesaZloa, mcodneni arian, magram maT is principi ar aqvT, rac mosamarTles unda hqondes. 15 wlis ganmavlobaSi es adamianebi kanonebs sakuTar Tavze werdnen da maTi damarcxeba rogor warmogidgeniaT? bolo xuTi wlis ganmavlobaSi, zardiaSvilebisa da maTikaSvilebis daxmarebiT ki, es kanonebi kidev ufro Caabetones, rom am qveyanaSi yvelafris mar- Tva am klanma SeZlos! eseni marto sasamarTlos ki ara, prokuraturas da finansur jgufebsac marTaven! maTi sacecebi Zalian bevr adgilzea modebuli! N30 (291) 1.10-07.10.2019 w. 9
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