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294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com `Tu oqruaSvili damnaSavea, „Tu 2015 wlis 13 ivniss axal- giorgi abaSiZe gazrdoba bunebriv stiqias ebr- Zoda, wels, 20 ivniss, axalgazrdebi politikur stiqias SeebrZolnen da sakuTari qveynis Rirseba daicaves! amitom 20 ivnisis Semdeg sruliad axali politikuri procesi daiwyo”, _ acxadebs ana rexviaSvili, romelic „gamarjvebuli saqarTvelos” erT-erTi lideri da, zo- gadadac, qarTuli politikis sruliad axali saxea. marTalia, politika ucxo namdvilad ar aris _ wlebis ganmavlobaSi evrostruqturebSi moR- vaweobda, amasTan, dedamisi, nestan kirTaZe, cnobili politikosia, magram, miuxedavad amisa, sainteresoa, ratom gadawyvita anam politikaSi CarTva maincdamainc axla da maincdamainc irakli oqruaSvilTan erTad? _ „qronika+”-ma anasTan saubari, ra Tqma unda, am TemiT daiwyo. _ ana, politikaSi erTob rTul dros CaerTeT da pirda- pir oromtrialSi aRmoCndiT. irakli oqruaSvilis gverdiT dadgoma ratom gadawyviteT? _ me, Tqven da iraklic, praqtikulad, erTi Taobis warmomadgenlebi varT. _ diax, asea. _ yvelaferi, rac aqamde iyo, erTad vnaxeT da gaviareT, amitom minda, rom saqarTveloSi postrevoluciur viTarebas, aseve maSindel liderebs Tvali gavusworoT da sworad SevafasoT. _ kargi, SevafasoT. _ maSindeli liderebidan erTerTi yvelaze gamokveTili irakli oqruaSvili gaxldaT, romelic, albaT, dameTanxmebiT, rom mxolod lideri ar iyo, anu im drois saqarTveloSi, Tavisi mkacri xasiaTiTa Tu principulobiT, erT-erTi yvelaze gavleniani politikosi iyo, Tumca yvelafer amis miuxedavad, maSinac vaRiarebdi da axlac vaRiareb, rom irakli oqruaSvili mizanmimarTuli da Sedegze orientirebuli politikosia. sxvaTa Soris, piradad Tqven Zalian kargad mogexsenebaT, rom Cemi saqmianobis mniSvnelovani wlebi ucxoeTSi gavatare da zustad vici, saqarTveloSi maSin ganxorcielebuli reformebis gamo dasavleTi rogori aRtacebulic iyo. am reformebis erTerTi mniSvnelovani ganmaxorcielebeli ki swored irakli oqruaSvili gaxldaT. _ SeiZleba, magram, ana, ar unda daviviwyoT, rom es reformatori oqruaSvili jariskacebs aginebda, Tqveni mogebuli omis deda- co. aseve isic gvaxsovs, okupant ruseTs fekaliebiT rom emuqreboda da, paralelurad, iqadneboda, axal wels cxinvalSi SevxvdebiTo. amasac Tavi rom dav- aneboT, oqruaSvili is pirveli revolucioneri iyo, romelmac Zaladobis damkvidreba daiwyo _ jer iyo da, bordelSi Sevarda, mere _ bondo Salikianis saxlSi. mokled, SeiZleba, ukanonobas ebrZoda, magram ukanonobasTan ZaladobiT brZola normaluria? _ simarTle giTxraT, velodi, rom am kiTxvas damisvamdiT da yvelaferi es, ra Tqma unda, Zalian kargad maxsovs, magram ar dagvaviwydes, rom maSin postrevoluciuri periodi iyo da is liderebic revoluciis produqtebi iyvnen! saerTod, revolucia konstituciidan gasvlaa, anu revoluciis dros saubari kanonebze ki ara, ideebis garSemo Seqmnil situaciazea. Sesabamisad, es adamianebic raRac postrevoluciur eiforiaSi imyofebodnen da, cxadia, gadacdomebic iyo da Zaladobac... rasac axla getyviT, ar vici, visTvis misaRebi iqneba da visTvis _ ara, magram zustad vici, rom Zalian bevri kiTxvis miuxedavad, am adamianebma SeZles, rom postsabWoTa „gruzia” Tanamedrove evropul „jorjiad” eqciaT! diax, maT Tanamedrove evropuli saxelmwifo Seqmnes da es CemTvis Zalian mniSvnelovania! _ ana, postsabWoTa „gruzia” evropul „jorjiad” „vardosneb- is” xelisuflebam aqcia. Cven ki oqruaSvilze vsaubrobT. _ oqruaSvili im xelisuflebis nawili da, weRandeli Tqmisa ar iyos, revolucionerebs Soris erT-erTi gavleniani lideri iyo! ise, ar vici, sazogadoebam icis Tu ara, magram Ss saministroSi vmuSaobdi. _ oqruaSvilis ministrobis dros? _ ara, ara, giorgi mRebriSvilis dros da SemiZlia giTxraT, rom bolo wlebis erT-erTi yvelaze warmatebuli patrulis reformaa, romelic vano merabiSvils miewera, Tumca es tyuilia! patrulis reforma swored oqruaSvilis Ss ministrobis dros gatarda. es CemTvis Zalian mniSvnelovania, radgan am instituciiT saqarTvelom momavlisken yureba da iqidan gamosvla daiwyo, sadac manamde viyaviT! mokled, Tu yvelafer amas sworad ganvsjiT, Cemi arCevani Zalian mkafio da principulia _ mec da, zogadad, oqruaSvilis yvela Tanagundelma zustad icis, rom es axali saqarTvelos politikuri procesia da am avangardSi Cven oqruaSvilTan erTad vdgavarT! _ ana, vis gverdiT idgebiT, es, rasakvirvelia, Tqveni arCevania, magram weRan TqviT, oqruaSvil- ma da, zogadad, „vardosnebma”, postsabWoTa „gruzia” evropul „jorjiad” aqcieso. amaSi simarT- lis marcvali aris, magram 2010 wels maSindelma xelisuflebam faruli Canawerebi gaavrcela, romliTac gamoikveTa, rom „oqros” rus samxedroebTan pirdapiri Tu iribi kavSiri hqonda. amasTan, isic cnobilia, rom par- izSi cxovrebis dros Tqveni lideri rusuli telearxebis xSiri stumari iyo. yvelafer amaze ra pasuxi gaqvT? _ yvelafer amas siRrmeSi ar Cavyvebi. _ ratom? _ oqruaSvilis yvela Secdomas ana rexviaSvili: `maSin postrevoluciuri periodi iyo da is liderebic revoluciis produqtebi iyvnen!~ vaRiareb, magram swored warsulze CabRauWeba momavlisken siarulis saSualebas ar gvaZlevs, anu Tu mxolod warsulze vilaparakebT, isev iq mivalT, saidanac daviwyeT, Tan imazec SevTanxmdeT, rom arc erTi politikosi fr- Tiani angelozi ar aris da verc iqneba! aqedan gamomdinare, Ti- Toeuli Cvengani Zalian xamamaRali an xmadabali SecdomebiT movdivarT, Tumca giTxariT da kidev geubnebiT: piradad CemTvis amosavali wertili is iyo da aris, rom am adamianebma, maT Soris, irakli oqruaSvilmac, romelic Tafli da muraba namdvilad ar aris, Cemi qveynis realoba Secvales. amitomac me iq var, sadac Cemi qveynis momavalia da ara _ warsuli! kidev erT rames getyviT: oqruaSvili, sxva danarCeni politikosebisgan gansxvavebiT, is iSviaTi gamonaklisia, romelmac zustad icis, Tavisma politikurma bedma ra amocanebisa da pasuxismgeblobis winaSe daayena! _ keTili, magram oqruaSvilma erT mdinareSi Sesvla meored gadawyvita, anu 2007 wlis msgavsad inga grigolias skandaluri interviu misca da ramdenime dRe- Si daapatimres. axla grigolias eTerSi warmoudgeneli ambebi ga- moamzeura da samarTaldamcve- lebmac miakiTxes. mokled, bevrs da, maT Soris, mec politikuri deJavius gancda gagviCnda. _ iciT, ra xdeba? _ yvelaferi es mTlad igive ar iyo, Tumca Cemi gadasaxedidan oqruaSvilma ivaniSvili, RaribaSvili, SoTaZe da sxva adamianebi amxila, anu isev iq mivdivarT, saidanac daviwyeT: xe- `cudi droa - diplomatiuri kalendari imis saSualebas ar gvaZlevs, rom mobilizebulad yvela davayenoT fexze, magram strategiuli gegma SevimuSaveT da dagegmili gvaqvs, rom saqmis kursSi CavayenoT strasburgi, briuseli, vena da vaSingtoni, anu dadasturebuli TariRebi ukve gvaqvs, roca yvelaferi es saerTaSoriso Tanamegobrobamde miva, magram axlave SeiZleba imis Tqma, rom diplomatebs Zalian bevri kiTxva aqvT da yvela imaSia darwmunebuli, raSic saqarTvelos mTeli sazogadoeba, anu oqruaSvili ivaniSvilis piradi mZevali da patimaria!~ lisuflebaSi isini movidnen, romelTa imedic mTel saqarTvelos hqonda, magram maRalCinosnebi zustad ise iqcevian, rogorc 2012 wlamde. aqedan gamomdinare, oqruaSvilis gulwrfel aRiarebas Tundac imitom mivesalmebi, rom yvelaferi is, razedac ilaparaka, sxva dros aRar ganmeordes! is gamowveva, romlis winaSec dgas, vfiqrob, raRac doziT irakli oqruaSvilis reabilitaciaa! _ simarTle giTxraT, ar mes- mis, reabilitacia ra SuaSia. amasTan, yvelam vicodiT, rom daWera gardauvali iyo da, sainteresoa, safrangeTidan ratom dabrunda? _ es oqruaSvilis dagegmili viziti iyo, anu ganacxada, am dros mivdivar da am dros ukan davbrundebio. amasobaSi, SeuTvales, saqarTveloSi ar Camoxvide, Torem dagiWerTo. sxvaTa Soris, irakli safrangeTSi rom wavida, socialur qselSi viRacebi werdnen, ai, gaqceuli liderio, magram oqruaSvili gaqceuli ar iyo da, rogorc Tqva, dabrunda, Tumca dabrunebamde ori dRiT adre misi dacvis wevri daapatimres, rac pirdapiri provocireba iyo. _ risi? _ imisi, rom an misi Camosvla daeCqarebinaT, an saerTod ar Camosuliyo da mere eTqvaT, ai, xedavT, aRar dabrundao. sxvaTa Soris, am Temaze gvisaubria da oqruaSvilma icoda, rom misi daWeris riski arsebobda _ ivaniSvilis mimarT Seurigeblobas Tavi rom davaneboT, „rusTavi 2-Tan” dakavSirebiT mocemuloba swored man amoatriala. mokled, saqarTveloSi Camosuli oqruaSvili sasamarTloSi midis, sadac mec viyavi da gamokiTxva zustad 15 wuTi grZeldeba. ise, Tu saWiro iyo, SeeZloT, iqve daekavebinaT, magram gamokiTxvaze konkretuli araferi yofila. ramdenime dRis Semdeg ki viTareba Seicvala. saerTod, roca am Temebze vsaubrobT, yvelaferi detalurad unda gavixsenoT, anu jer pirdapiri da daufaravi Seteva 10 10 N26 (287) 6.08-12.08.2019 w.
N26 (287) 6.08-12.08.2019 w. 294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com mec damnaSave var!~ anakliis portze ganxorcielda, erTi dRis Semdeg ki dartyma „rusTavi 2-ze” miaqvT da uceb, oqruaSvils apatimreben. _ e. i., ana, am sam movlenas Soris kavSirs xedavT? _ ra Tqma unda. _ neba momeciT, ar dageTanxmoT, radgan igive anakliaze Seteva 20 ivnisis movlenebamde daiwyo. oqruaSvils ki swored imaSi sdeben brals, rom „gavrilovis Rames” jgufur Zaladobasa da saxelmwifo gadatrialebis mcde- lobaSi monawileobda. _ ki batono, anakliaze Seteva ramdenime Tvis win daiwyo, magram krizisi bolo dros gaRrmavda _ xazaraZe-jafariZe ports Camoa- Sores. paraleluri dartyma ganxorcielda „rusTavi 2-ze”, anu im telekompaniaze, romelic anakliis proeqtis pirdapiri lobistia. _ ana, momiteveT, magram faqtebi ar davamaxinjoT, anu imis Tqma minda, rom „rusTavi 2- ze” Seteva „ocnebam” ki ar miitana, gadawyvetileba evrosasa- marTlom gamoitana. _ gasagebia, magram isic xom vnaxeT, evrosasamarTlos gadawyvetilebis gamotanidan zustad erT saaTSi rac moxda _ xalvaSi raRac Tavis uflebebs ibrunebs. paralelurad, cnobili xdeba e. w. oqruaSvilisa da „rusTavi 2"-is qeisi, romelzec sarCeli SevitaneT da ramac realoba amoatriala. mokled, mTeli aurzauri daiwyo _ xalvaSis xelmoweraze sami eqspertizis daskvna gviWiravs, romelic mowmobs, rom xelmowera namdvilia. isic zustad viciT, rom am xelmoweris namdvilobaze samxarauls daskvna aqvs, magram ar asajaroebs, radgan masze ormagi wnexia, anu erTi wnexi xelisuflebisaa, meore ki _ kanonis. Tvaurma zustad icis, rom gayalbebuli daskvna sisxlis samaTlis kodeqsiT isjeba. _ ana, mTel am ambavSi, Cemi aziT, kidev erTi sakanonmdeblo kazusia, kerZod, igive braldeba nika meliasac wauyenes, romelic ar daapatimres da samajuri ak- mares, oqruaSvili ki cixeSi gauSves. amas riT xsniT? _ xelisufleba amas verafriT gaamarTlebs da drois gayvanas cdilobs, anu im masalebSi, rac warmoadgina, mxolod raRac wiTeli isari Cans. gamoZieba ambobs, oqruaSvili parlamentTan 30-kaciani razmiT iyo misulio. arada, am „razmSi” Cvenc varT _ aTi adamiani. diax, Cven, yvelani parlamentis win dilis 7 saaTamde viyaviT. Sesabamisad, Tu oqruaSvili damnaSavea, mec da yvela sxva adamianic, vinc iq idga, damnaSavea! erTi sityviT, gamoZiebas arafrismTqmeli videos garda araferi aqvs. aseve arsebobs samarTaldamcvelTa SeTiTxnili Cvenebebi da es Cvenebebi, rogorc gavigeT, 24 ivnissaa micemuli. yvelafer aqedan gamomdinare, xelisufleba Cix- Sia. sxvaTa Soris, imis Sesaxeb, rac SigniT xdeba, informaciac gvaqvs. amitom agoniaSi arian da cdiloben, rogorme dro gawelon, Tan „rusTavi 2-is” saqmec gaugonar krizisSi Sedis da zustad vici, es krizisi ekranis CaqrobiT `oqruaSvilis yvela Secdomas vaRiareb, magram SevTanxmdeT, rom arc erTi politikosi frTiani angelozi ar aris da verc iqneba!~ da „rusTavi 2-is” daxurviT dam- Tavrdeba! amasobaSi ki ekonomika Tavze gvemxoba da yvelaferi es logikurad ver gagrZeldeba. _ „gamarjvebul saqarTvelo- Si”, rogorc cnobilia, saerTa- Soriso urTierTobebs kurirebT. ana, ucxoeli partniorebi oqru- aSvilis daWeraze ras amboben? _ cudi droa _ diplomatiuri kalendari imis saSualebas ar gva- Zlevs, rom mobilizebulad yvela davayenoT fexze, magram strategiuli gegma SevimuSaveT da dagegmili gvaqvs, rom saqmis kursSi CavayenoT strasburgi, briuseli, vena da vaSingtoni, anu dadasturebuli TariRebi ukve gvaqvs, roca yvelaferi es saerTaSoriso Tanamegobrobamde miva, magram axlave SeiZleba imis Tqma, rom diplomatebs Zalian bevri kiTxva aqvT da yvela imaSia darwmunebuli, raSic saqarTvelos mTeli sazogadoeba, anu oqruaSvili ivaniSvilis piradi mZevali da patimaria! _ ivaniSvils oqruaSvilis mZe- vlad ayvana risTvis sWirdeba? _ ar vici, es SeiZleba, misi agoniiT an SiSiT aris gamowveuli! _ ise, ana, gamoricxavT, rom istoria isev ganmeordes da oqruaSvilma, romelsac politikur patimrad acxadebT, 2007 wlis msgavsad, sakanSi aRiarebi- Ti Cveneba misces da yvelaferi, rac Tqva, uaryos? _ diax, amas sruliad gamovricxav! sxvaTa Soris, riskebi da xifaTebi arsebobs da Cvenc yvelanair versias ganvixilavT, magram amis miuxedavad, is, rac 2007 wels vixileT, gamoricxulia! irakli oqruaSvili yvelanair wnexs gauZlebs imitom, rom dRes absoluturad sxva realoba da mocemulobaa! _ socialur mediaSi, rogorc Tvali movkari, daiwera, sapyro- bileSi oqruaSvili SesaZloa, mowamlono. Tqvenc am xifaTze mianiSnebT? _ detalurad ar vici, ra Sei- Zleba moxdes, magram es rigiTi sisxlis samarTlis saqme araa, arc oqruaSvilia rigiTi patimari da amitom SesaZlebelia, rom nebismieri suraTi ganviTardes. Sesabamisad, rogorc ki gavigeT, rom patimrobaSi datoves, saxalxo damcvels SevxvdiT, romlis warmomadgenlebmac irakli imave Rames moinaxules... xifaTebze informacia Signidanac gvaqvs. _ anu xelisuflebisTvis oqruaSvili ufro saSiSia, vidre _ melia? _ nika melias mimarT, ra Tqma unda, Zalian did pativiscemas gamovxatav _ misi Sinapatimroba igive cixis tolfasia, anu aseTi `saerTod, revolucia konstituciidan gasvlaa, anu revoluciis dros saubari kanonebze ki ara, ideebis garSemo Seqmnil situaciazea. Sesabamisad, es adamianebic raRac postrevoluciur eiforiaSi imyofebodnen da, cxadia, gadacdomebic iyo da Zaladobac... rasac axla getyviT, ar vici, visTvis misaRebi iqneba da visTvis - ara, magram zustad vici, rom Zalian bevri kiTxvis miuxedavad, am adamianebma SeZles, rom postsabWoTa `gruzia~ Tanamedrove evropul `jorjiad~ eqciaT! diax, maT Tanamedrove evropuli saxelmwifo Seqmnes da es CemTvis Zalian mniSvnelovania!~ energiuli politikosi politikur procesebs CamoSorebulia, Tumca irakli oqruaSvilTan yvelaferi „rusTavi 2-is” qeisma gaamZafra. _ cnobilia, rom gamouvali mdgomareoba ar arsebobs. hoda, Seqmnili viTarebidan oqruaSvili da, Sesabamisad, xelisufle- bac rogor unda gamovides? _ diax, gamouvali mdgomareoba ar arsebobs. saerTod, irakli oqruaSvili damoukideblad ar ganixileba da igive diplomatiur korpuss yvela politpatimris qeisze velaparakebiT, anu mTavaria, es adamianebi cixidan rogorme ganTavisufldnen da xelisuflebam Tavisi farsi gamoZieba ise gaagrZelos. mosamarTlem da prokurorma, TavianTi ususuroba rom daefaraT, jer procesi daxures, mere ki is gadawyvetileba gamoitanes, romelic winaswar yvelasTvis cnobili iyo. ar vici, aseTi ram adamianma rogor unda aitanos da moiTminos! zogadad, xelisuflebas, adre Tu gvian, mxolod imis ki ara, rom politpatimrebi hyavs, aramed sxva bevri ramis aRiareba mouwevs. _ amas ris safuZvelze am- bobT? _ qveyanaSi arsebuli krizisi ufro da ufro gaRrmavdeba da gamwvavdeba. diax, qveyana CixSia da yvelaferi Tavze Camogvengreva, magram vimedovneb, xelisufleba- Sic aris iseTi vinme, vinc gons moegeba! _ naTqvamia, zogi Wiri marge- beliao. hoda, yvelaferi es, razedac vsaubrobT, oqruaSvilsa da mis „gamarjvebul saqarTve- los” e. w. mesame Zalad xom ar aqcevs? _ ase ar ganvixilav, mesame Zala vinme gaxdeba Tu ara, magram „gamarjvebuli saqarTvelos” prezentacia 16 ivniss iyo da Tve-naxevarSi oqruaSvili xelisuflebisTvis saSiSi gaxda! amas, ar mgonia, kidev ramis damateba sWirdebodes. am qveynisTvis irakli oqruaSvilis saWiroeba sazogadoebam, mgoni, Zalian kargad dainaxa da momavalSi kidev ufro metad dainaxavs! _ „gamarjvebuli saqarTvelo” saSiSi mxolod xelisuflebisTvisaa Tu opozicis nawil- isTvisac? _ ar vici... saSiSs ver vityvi, Tumca opoziciisTvis „gamarjvebuli saqaTvelo”, albaT, ufro gamowvevaa. sxvaTa Soris, opoziciis Zalian didi mxardaWera gvaqvs _ 24 saaTi TanamSromlobis reJimSi varT, Tumca Tu Sors wavediT, aravin icis, ra iqneba. _ „Sors wasvlaSi” ras gulisx- mobT? _ Tundac arCevnebs, Tumca manamde didi droa. dRes ki opozicias madlobas vuxdi, radgan am dReebSi srul Tanadgomas vgrZnobT! _ Tanadgomas bokerias gun- disganac grZnobT? _ yovel SemTxvevaSi, bokeriam da ugulavam gancxadebebi gaakeTes, rac oqruaSvilis mimarT solidarobis dasturia. _ ana, emociebis gareSe rom mipasuxoT: „rusTavi 2" imad Rirda, rom oqruaSvili cixeSi wa- suliyo? _ ra Tqma unda. saerTod, yvelaferi Rirs, roca saqme Tavisufal sityvasa da qveyanas exeba! „rusTavi 2-is” daxSobiT Tavisufali sityva ixSoba! „rusTavi 2" erTaderT SemTxvevaSi ar Caqreba _ Tu Tavis realur mesakuTres, irakli oqruaSvils daubrundeba, romelic „rusTavi 2-s” ar ganixilavs, rogorc komerciul da bizneskompanias, aramed rogorc Tavisuflebisa da damoukideblobis garantsa da platformas. metic, irakli oqruaSilma ramdenjerme gaakeTa gancxadeba, rom „rusTavi 2-is” dabrunebisTanave mas sakuTrebaSi „rusTaviorelebs” gadascems, rogorc sazogadoebriv sikeTes, romelic kvlav gaagrZelebs Tavisuflebis medroSeobas saqarTvelosa da, saerTod, mTel regionSi! _ ki batono, „rusTavi 2" flagmania, magram am qveyanaSi Tavisufal sityvas veravin Caax- Sobs, radgan yvelafers Tavi rom davaneboT, arsebobs „qronika+”! mokled, politikuri vertikali, mgoni, Secdomas uSvebs, roca Tavisufali sityvis damcvelad mxolod erT mediasaSualebas acxadebs! _ politikuri vertikali diferenciacias yovelTvis axdens. ubralod, „rusTavi 2" mudam yuradRebis qveS iyo da es saqme gaxmaurebulia! ise, me Tu mkiTxavT, „ruTavi 2-ma” Tavisi resursi amowura, anu is saqme Seasrula, rac unda Seesrulebina, Tumca, ra Tqma unda, mivesalmebi, rom am arxma funqcionireba ise gaagrZelos, rogorc aqamde funqcionirebda! _ bolos, ana, rogor fiqrobT, saqarTvelo gaimarjvebs? _ dRes saqarTvelos sindisi, samwuxarod, arc erTi pirovneba araa, magram, sabednierod, dRes saqarTvelos sindisi ivnisis Taobaa, orive ivniss vgulixmob _ 13- sac da 20-sac. Tu 13 ivniss axalgazrdoba bunebriv stiqias ebrZoda, 20-Si axalgazrdebi politikur stiqias SeebrZolnen da sakuTari qveynis Rirseba daicves! amitom 20 ivnisis Semdeg sruliad axali politikuri procesi daiwyo. Cveni dRevandeli da xvalindeli dRec swored es aris! 11
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