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294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com<br />
vidre _ mixeil saakaSvils! metic,<br />
Tu dRes vinme politikur aminds<br />
qmnis, anu Tu biZina ivaniSvili<br />
vinmes azrs iTvaliswinebs, es giga<br />
bokeriaa!<br />
_ anu, am procesebiT, saboloo<br />
jamSi, mogebuli „evropuli<br />
saqarTvelo” darCeba, ara?<br />
_ rasakvirvelia, asea da zusti<br />
formulireba gaakeTeT. 20 ivnisidan<br />
moyolebuli, vinc procesebs<br />
warmarTavs da viszec SeiZleba<br />
vTqvaT, rom yvelafer amiT moigo,<br />
es „evropuli saqarTveloa”!<br />
_ ai, am dros, Tqven, anu arasa-<br />
parlamento opozicia sadaa,<br />
TamaSgare mdgomareobaSia?<br />
_ diax, Cven TiTqmis TamaSgare<br />
mdgomareobaSi varT da amasac<br />
Tavisi obieqturi mizezi aqvs.<br />
_ kerZod, ra mizezi?<br />
_ amomrCevlisa da sazogadoebis<br />
formirebas yvelaze metad satelevizio<br />
sivrce axdens. am mxriv<br />
tonis mimcemi „rusTavi 2" iyo,<br />
romelic mxolod „nacionalur<br />
moZraobas” ki ara, partnior „evropul<br />
saqarTvelosac” aSuqebda. am<br />
da sxva faqtorebis gaTvaliswinebiT,<br />
sxva politikuri speqtri<br />
mTlianad ganadgurebulia da Tu<br />
am kuTxiT konkretuli nabijebi ar<br />
gadaidga, maSin 2020-Sic isev orpolusian<br />
politikur velamde<br />
mivalT. amitom erT-erTi polusis<br />
CamoSlac ki qveynisTvis ukeTesi<br />
iqneba, radgan meoe polusic Tavis<br />
funqcias bunebrivad dakargavs.<br />
zogadad, es sqema marto saqarTveloSi<br />
ki ara, mTel msoflioSi<br />
muSaobs.<br />
_ e. i., is, rac „rusTavi 2-is”<br />
garSemo xdeba, dadebiTia, rameTu<br />
mZlavri mediamxardamWeris daka-<br />
rgviT „nacmoZraoba” CamoiSleba<br />
da amas, avtomaturad, „ocnebis”<br />
CamoSlac mohyveba. Tqveni naTq-<br />
vami sworad gavige?<br />
_ ki batono.<br />
_ amasobaSi ki bokeria sakuTar<br />
medias qmnis. yovel SemTxvevaSi,<br />
daviT kezeraSvilis televizia,<br />
romelic dRe-dReze Seiqmneba,<br />
„evropul saqarTveloze” imuSavebs.<br />
sxvaTa Soris, amis Sesax-<br />
eb pirvelad informacia Cveni<br />
gamocemis mTavarma redaqtorma,<br />
eliso kilaZem gaavrcela. hoda,<br />
arasaparlamento opozicia isev<br />
obsaidisTvisaa ganwiruli, ara?<br />
_ iciT, raxdeba?<br />
_ ra?<br />
_ aqamde xelisuflebas aseTi<br />
polusi awyobda da danarCen opozicias<br />
politikur velSi Semosvlis<br />
saSualebas ar aZlevda, radgan<br />
Tavs komfortulad grZnobda,<br />
Tumca axla xelisufleba mixvda,<br />
rom 2020-Si unda wavides.<br />
_ amas ris safuZvelze ambobT?<br />
_ formula, rom xelisufleba<br />
ori mowvevis Semdeg icvleba,<br />
yovelTvis muSaobs da saakaSvilic<br />
mixvda, rom meore mowvevis mere<br />
unda wasuliyo. am formulas verc<br />
ivaniSvili Secvlis da wava.<br />
sxvaTa Soris, imis Sesaxeb, rom<br />
„ocneba” 2020-Si xelisuflebaSi<br />
veRar darCeba, baxtaZem erT-erT<br />
Sexvedraze ukve ganacxada. yovel<br />
SemTxvevaSi, koaliciur mTavrobaze<br />
daiwyo laparaki. aqedan gamomdinare,<br />
xelisufleba iZulebuli<br />
gaxdeba, rom igive telesivrceSi<br />
sxva televiziebic gaaCinos. es xelisuflebis<br />
mxridan adekvaturi<br />
nabiji iqneba.<br />
iTvaliswinebs, es bokeriaa!~<br />
`bokeria im TamaSs TamaSobs, romliTac<br />
ivaniSvils uxerxulobas uqmnis, magram bokeria<br />
bolomde radikalizms ar TamaSobs, anu<br />
opoziciis is nawili, romelic maqsimalur<br />
moTxovnebze midis, bokeria araa. amasTan,<br />
bokeria arc imas cdilobs, rom riggareSe<br />
arCevnebi dainiSnos. mas, ubralod, is ar<br />
unda, rom rusTaveli dakargos da rusTaveli<br />
"nacmoZraobas" gadaabaros, romelic<br />
radikalizmzea wamsvleli da romelic<br />
yvelafers gamoiyenebs, rom situacia<br />
maqsimalurad daiZabos da ivaniSvili<br />
rusebTan salaparakod daCoqili mivides!~<br />
weRandeli Tqmisa ar iyos, „nacmoZraobis”<br />
qmedebebi CemTvis bolomde<br />
misaRebi ar aris, magram<br />
gasagebia da Tu manac, daaxloebiT,<br />
es pozicia ar daiWira, wamgebian<br />
poziciaSi aRmoCndeba.<br />
_ ratom?<br />
_ imitom, rom brZola „ocnebasa”<br />
da e. w. liberalur opozicias<br />
Soris ki ar wava, aramed „ocneba”<br />
Seecdeba, rom brZolis velze<br />
is Zalebic gamoiyvanos, romelic<br />
liberalur frTasTan araa<br />
gaigivebuli.<br />
_ mokled, „ocnebam”, SesaZloa,<br />
arasaparlamento opozicias agin-<br />
ToT mwvane?<br />
_ ara, ara.<br />
_ aba?<br />
_ „ocneba” Seecdeba, rom igive<br />
satelevizio sivrcis raRac nawili<br />
gaxsnas da Sesabamisad, meore<br />
polusic iZulebuli gaxdeba, am<br />
politikur TamaSSi danarCenic<br />
Seiyvanos. „rusTavi 2" danarCen<br />
televiziebs tons aZlevda da es<br />
momenti namdvilad dadebiTi iyo<br />
_ „maestro” da „imedic” iZulebuli<br />
iyvnen, „rusTavi 2-is” tonze<br />
raRac reagireba moexdinaT.<br />
ar vici, „rusTavi 2-s” ra elis,<br />
magram iZulebuli gaxdeba, politikur<br />
da telesivrceSi sxva politikuri<br />
Zalebic Semoiyvanos, magram<br />
Tu xelisufleba adekvatur<br />
nabijebs ar gadadgams, maSin danarCeni<br />
politikuri partiebi iZulebuli<br />
gaxdebian, TamaSis im wesebs<br />
daeqvemdebaron, romelsac „nacionaluri<br />
moZraoba” an „evropuli<br />
saqarTvelo” gvTavazobs.<br />
_ vnaxoT, ra da rogor iqneba,<br />
magram Tundac iqidan gamom-<br />
dinare, rom erovnuli valuta<br />
dRiTi dRe ufasurdeba, 2020-mde<br />
mSvidad mivalT, anu socialuri<br />
bunti xom ar ifeTqebs?<br />
_ is, rasac axla getyviT,<br />
gasagebi mxolod maTTvis iqneba,<br />
visac cota meti analizis unari<br />
aqvs: Seuracxyofas aravis vayeneb,<br />
magram viTarebas SexedeT: evropasTan<br />
„qarTulma ocnebam” Tavisi<br />
situacia deklarirebis doneze<br />
gaarkvia, anu roca saqarTveloSi<br />
evrosabWos prezidenti Camovida,<br />
masTan pirdapir Tqves, rom 2020-<br />
Si mravalpartiuli da proporciuli<br />
arCevnebi Catardeba, romlis<br />
Sedegadac xelisuflebaSi koaliciuri<br />
mTavroba mova.<br />
axla „qarTul ocnebas” situacia<br />
ruseTTan aqvs gasarkvevi.<br />
garkveul gunds ruseTTan ivaniSvilis<br />
maqsimalurad CoqbjeniT miyvana<br />
awyobs. aviRoT Tundac igive<br />
`ivaniSvilma fuli araTu iSova, aramed<br />
SeinarCuna kidec, anu rogorc ki realur<br />
safrTxes dainaxavs, adekvatur nabijs<br />
gadadgams da ase moxda 20 ivnisis Semdeg,<br />
roca proporciul arCevnebze daTanxmda.<br />
mokled, axlac, Tu realur safrTxes<br />
dainaxavs, gadawyvetilebas instinqtis doneze<br />
miiRebs da imis resursi arsebobs, rom<br />
seqtembris Sua ricxvebidan an oqtombridan<br />
ekonomika, met-naklebad, dastabilurdes~<br />
gaxaria, romelic rusTavelis<br />
gamzirze mimdinare aqciis monawileebisTvis<br />
prorusul Zalad<br />
moiazreba.<br />
_ ukacravad, gaxaria ra SuaSia<br />
da, saerTod, raze saubrobT, ba-<br />
tono goCa?<br />
_ ivaniSvilisTvis gaxaria ufro<br />
meti safrTxis Semcvelia, vidre _<br />
aqciis monawileebisTvis.<br />
_ ratom?<br />
_ is iZulebulia, rusul Zalas<br />
angariSi gauwios.<br />
_ imas ambobT, rom ivaniSvili<br />
ruseTTan gaxariaTi vaWrobs?<br />
_ ara.<br />
_ aba?<br />
_ gaxarias ruseTTan marTlac<br />
kargad dalagebuli situacia aqvs.<br />
amitom ivaniSvilisTvis arakomfortulia,<br />
anu gaxarias moqmedebebma<br />
evropasTan miRweuli misi<br />
SeTanxmebebi TiTqmis nulamde<br />
daiyvana, Tumca evropa emociurad<br />
ki ara, Sedegobrivad xedavs, rom<br />
fundamenturi cvlileba gardauvalia,<br />
anu 2020-Si proporciuli<br />
arCevnebis Catareba da koalicuri<br />
mTavrobis Seqmna evropisTvis fundamenturi<br />
cvlilebaa. amiT ivaniSvilma<br />
yvelanairi garantia miiRo,<br />
rom misi usafrTxoeba daculi<br />
iqneba!<br />
_ socialur buntze gkiTxeT<br />
da pasuxi ar gameciT, batono<br />
goCa.<br />
_ pirdapir vTqvaT, saqarTvelos<br />
farglebs gareT CvenTan socialuri<br />
bunti vis awyobs?<br />
_ albaT, ruseTs, ara?<br />
_ diax, asea. aqedan gamomdinare,<br />
imis albaToba, rom politikuri<br />
temperatura sakmaod maRla<br />
avides, arsebobs.<br />
sxvaTa Soris, maqvs informacia,<br />
rom saamisod arcTu patara fulic<br />
ixarjeba. metic: im politikosebis<br />
nawili, romelic sazogadoebaSi<br />
proamerikelad aris cnobili,<br />
sinamdvileSi, rusul TamaSs<br />
TamaSobs, Tumca ar vici, yvelaferi<br />
es uneburad xdeba Tu<br />
gaTvlilia.<br />
_ visze mianiSnebT?<br />
_ maTze, vinc rusTavelze dganan<br />
da amboben, rom rusuli okupaciis<br />
winaaRmdegebi arian!<br />
_ moaruli informaciiT, anti-<br />
saokupacio aqciebis ukan bokeria<br />
dgas. e. i., ra xdeba?<br />
_ bokeria im TamaSs TamaSobs,<br />
romliTac ivaniSvils uxerxulobas<br />
uqmnis, magram bokeria bolomde<br />
radikalizms ar TamaSobs, anu<br />
opoziciis is nawili, romelic maqsimalur<br />
moTxovnebze midis, bokeria<br />
araa. amasTan, bokeria arc imas<br />
cdilobs, rom riggareSe arCevnebi<br />
dainiSnos. mas, ubralod, is ar<br />
unda, rom rusTaveli dakargos da<br />
rusTaveli „nacmoZraobas” gadaabaros,<br />
romelic radikalizmzea<br />
wamsvleli da romelic yvelafers<br />
gamoiyenebs, rom situacia maqsimalurad<br />
daiZabos da ivaniSvili<br />
rusebTan salaparakod daCoqili<br />
mivides! ai, es aris „nacmoZraobis”<br />
amocana da isic misi gamarjveba<br />
iqneba, Tu vadamdeli arCevnebi<br />
dainiSneba, Tumca rusTavelze vi-<br />
Tareba, jerjerobiT, wynarad vi-<br />
Tardeba da, minimum, Semodgomamde,<br />
garTulebebi ar iqneba.<br />
_ maSasadame, igive lari xelovnurad<br />
gaufasurda da yvelaferi<br />
es garkveuli politikuri<br />
jgufebisganaa manipu-<br />
lirebuli?<br />
_ albaT, gaxsovT, roca antisabanko<br />
isterika daiwyo da imaze<br />
saubrobdnen, rom mTel saqarTveloSi<br />
yvelafers bankebi marTaven.<br />
amas moyva logika, rom erT-erTi<br />
yvelaze warmatebuli „Tibisi banki”<br />
anakliis ports erovnuli interesebis<br />
doneze wyvets. sxvaTa<br />
Soris, anakliis portis ekonomikuri<br />
mxare salaparako aRaraa da<br />
darCenilia samxedo nawili.<br />
mokled, imis Tqma minda, rom<br />
bankebi qveynis politikis gansazRvraSi<br />
praqtikulad monawileoben,<br />
rac SemTxveviTi araa, anu ivaniSvils<br />
Tavisi interesebis gamo brZola<br />
erT mxares, „nacmoZraobasTan”<br />
uwevs, meore mxriv ki TavianTi interesebi<br />
bankebsac aqvT, romlebic<br />
valutasTan mimarTebiT calke<br />
TamaSs TamaSoben. erovnuli banki<br />
„Tibisisa” da „saqarTvelos bank-<br />
Tan” Tavisi berketebis amuSavebas<br />
ver bedavs da mozomil nabijebs<br />
dgams. esec imis niSania, rom bankebs<br />
TavianTi politika aqvT da<br />
cdiloben, qarTul politikur<br />
sivrceSi Semovidnen.<br />
_ am sabanko da politikuri<br />
TamaSebiT ki mosaxleoba zaral-<br />
deba. Cven, rigiTma moqalaqeebma,<br />
ra unda vqnaT, batono goCa?<br />
_ mosaxleoba, erTi mxriv,<br />
Tavisufal da liberalur ideebs<br />
gulSematkivrobs; meore mxriv ki<br />
revolucias mxars ar uWers, anu<br />
mosaxleobam kargad icis, rom<br />
2020-mde stabilurad misvla aucilebelia.<br />
ekonomikuri stabilurobis<br />
erT-erTi piroba ki politikuri<br />
stabilurobaa.<br />
mokled, xalxi yvelafers sworad<br />
Tvlis, Tumca es imas ar niSnavs,<br />
rom „ocnebis” mxaresaa, amasTan,<br />
imasac ambobs, rom gaxariasTan<br />
brZola revanSistuli Zalebis<br />
mosvlas niSnavs.<br />
rac Seexeba mSieri buntis faqtors,<br />
ki batono, xelisufleba<br />
uunaroa, magram imdeni Wkua eyofa,<br />
rom raRac nabijebi gadadgas.<br />
yovel SemTxvevaSi, saamiso resursi<br />
aqvs, Tumca ivaniSvili, jerjerobiT,<br />
im faqtorebs xedavs, romelic<br />
stkiva. amitom mgonia, rom SemodgomisTvis<br />
garkveul pozicias<br />
Camoayalibebs. zogadad, didi fuli<br />
SeiZleba, uceb iSovo, magram am<br />
fulis SenarCunebas garkveuli<br />
Wkua da instinqtebi sWirdeba.<br />
_ es ra SuaSia?<br />
_ ivaniSvilma fuli araTu iSova,<br />
aramed SeinarCuna kidec, anu<br />
rogorc ki realur safrTxes<br />
dainaxavs, adekvatur nabijs gadadgams<br />
da ase moxda 20 ivnisis Semdeg,<br />
roca proporciul arCevnebze<br />
daTanxmda. mokled, axlac, Tu realur<br />
safrTxes dainaxavs, gadawyvetilebas<br />
instinqtis doneze miiRebs<br />
da imis resursi arsebobs,<br />
rom seqtembris Sua ricxvebidan an<br />
oqtombridan ekonomika, met-naklebad,<br />
dastabilurdes. amasTan,<br />
politikuri velic SedarebiT adekvaturi<br />
gaxdes.<br />
_ uSvebT albaTobas, rom seqtembris<br />
bolos ivaniSvilma ministrTa<br />
kabineti mTlianad Secva-<br />
los?<br />
_ SeiZleba, Tumca imis saSiSroebac<br />
arsebobs, rom radikalizmi<br />
gaZlierdes, rasac riggareSe arCevnebi<br />
moyveba da yvelafer amiT<br />
qveyana 2003 wlis mdgomareobas<br />
daubrundeba!<br />
N26 (287) 6.08-12.08.2019 w.<br />
19
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