Minutes of Evidence p.1401-1509 - Parliament of Victoria

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~·homasBrunton, 49463. What is the clifference in this colony, as far as expense is concerned, between the flour slli:";i~'sa. dressed by this patent machinery and t.he course flour that we have seen to~day ?-The cost is simply interest upon the money-upon the outlay addecl and the duty added. Take the interest say at 10 per cent. 49464. What price do they ch>wge per ton difference upon this flour?-We do not rmtke any flour of that class. 49465. Have you any of this patent machinery that Mr. Gibson has ?-Yes. 49466. This Hungarian machinery ?-No. We have everything he has got, I think, except the rollers. 4946 7. If the duty were taken off this machinery, do you think it would be imported ?-Yes, I think so. You are bouml to. We must improve the colour of our flour to be able to compete, even in Sydney, bnt it is singular how fashion changes. Now the bakers there and the public are far more particular to have a white loaf' than they are here. The same applies to London and the West of England. The bread in Glasgow, to look at, is worth 2d. a loaf more t.lum the bread in Edinburgh, consequently as a manufacturer you have to manufacture what will suit your customers. 4!J468. Can the machinery you nse in yonr factory he made in this country?-Yes, I think so. At any rate all except the disc mill (I have got no rollers) that I have got. The disc mill is a clifterent process of reducing wheat to small proportions. It is upon the same principle as the rollers. 49469. Then what reasons could this Commission give to the general public, who at present believe in protection, for doing awny with the duties if the article can be manufactured in this country ?-I should say to the mill machinists here-" Show me a machine equnl to that, or show me that you can make one," and that woulrl be enough. But they say, "I cannot do that, I have not the materi11l." 49470. Suppose a machine cost a certain sum of money, what would be the difference in the percentage, as far as value is concerned, between the colonial~made article and the English-made article of a similar sort of machinery ?-They say a purifier costs here £140 made by BQ(ldington ; they could be got, I should sav, for £70 or £80. " 49471. By llfr. Jl{clntyre.-An equal machine ?-Yes, I think so. There are two machines; I have one that would do the same work. 49472. By .11fr. Zoil~.-Are we to understand you that an article that would cost you £140 here, if it could be importecl from England duty free, it could be laid clown here for £70 ?-£70 or £80-that is not taking the duty, you know. . 49473. No, taking freight and insurance and the price of the article itself without duty ?-Yes. 49474. And there would be a difference in your opinion, between 60 and 70 per cent. now, or nearly 100 per cent. difference?-Yes, I should think that in certain machinery. 49475. Do you use many bags in your business ?-Yes, we do. 49476. Do you use many of the colonially manufactured article ?-When they are cheaper than the. others we do. 49477. Are they ever cheaper ?-I have seen them cheaper. 49478. Do you think that without the duty upon bags the colonial manufacturer could compete with those from India and other places ?-No, I always thought it a mistake. I may say it is my opinion that it is a mistake to put a protective duty upon anything where the raw material is not native to the country. 49479. How many bags, colonial made, are nsed to those imported, that is what is the percentage of the one to the other ?-I should say not cent. of what are used are colonial made. 49480. Is the quality as good I think so. 49481. By lvfr. Bosisto.-Have you had any experience with reference to the quality of the wheat grown from year tD year on the same lancl, as to t.he quality of the flour derived therefrom ?-Am I to understand that question--- 4~)482. You are aware that in many parts of this country farmers are growing wheat upon the same piece of land year nfter year ?-Yes. 49483. Have you any evidence to give us positively as to whether the wheat grown in such a way is not becoming more or less deteriorated in value ?-Yes, I think it is ; it loses its glutinous prope1iies after long cultivation. 49484. Do you find that wheat grown in districts where fanners have been growing wheat every year, has deteriorated in its vnlue for flour'?-Yes. 49485. You do ?-I do decidedly. 4!1486. Have you had any ex:pe1ience in reference to wheat grown upon land where there has been a rotation of crops, at all that more applies to Kyneton and the old settled districts. . 41J487. It has not come under your notice as to whether, then, it continues in its level full value? No. 49488 .Are you of opinion that the way in which m:1ny of our farmers are growing their wheat crops is really detriment:1l to themselves and to the flour trade '?-Yes, I think so. We all desire to "et wheat from new l:1ml that has never been cultivated before. That is always the strongest wheat, grad11:J:ly it goes clown and deteriorates in value; that, eoupled with dirt, barley and wild oats that are mixed with it. The districts vary too. The districts around Dookie and Yarrawonga, the lime country, produce very good wheat ; but that from the Goulburn valley and the flat country is very poor, it is all starch and water. Most of our country has just been taken up recently. 49489. You are aW!tre that in some places the farmers are really devoting their attention to the rotation of crops, while in others they are exhausting the soil by growing wheat perpetually?-Yes, that is the general practice, I believe, round about Kyneton, and near town ; farming is carried on as a science. 19490. 'fake the Wimmera, where wheat is grown year after year for five or six years, is the wheat deteriorating in its flour value ?-The VVimmera
1465 49494. Do you think you could draw up a list of articles upon which you think the tariff ought to Thomas.Brunton, be altered ?-Yes. st~::;~sa. ~ . 49495. Do you think you could send a list of such articles as the millers, as a body, desire to be altered in the tariff ?-They could be all described under the word "Rollers "-chil)ed rollers and porcelain rollers. 49496. Now as to corn sacks and belting ?-I do not know that you could get belting much cheaper if the duty was off to-morrow. 49497. Do you think the millers could agree among themselves as to the list of goods that they want the duty off ?-I do not think they could, beyond the rollers ; they would be all unanimous upon that point. You come upon the question of purifiers then, and you trench upon a vested interest here which is perfectly capable of making them. 49498. I think you answered this question to Mr. Zox-if the duty was taken off this patent machinery referred to by Mr. Gibson, would it be more extensively used in the colony ?-I think so. Whenever you have to send out flour to the world you must compete with those who send flour to a similar market. 49499. I do not ask for medical evidence as to which is the best ?-Not at all, it is simply a question of opinion. 49500. It is what is most saleable ?-Yes. 49501. By the Chairman.-As to the machinery, I understood you to say to Mr. Zox that a machine that would be purchased in London· for £69 would cost in this colony about £140 ?-I am :not quite sure what Bodington charges for his purifiers ; it depends upon the size and the superficial surface of silk in the purifier. 49502. That is about what they pay, £140 ?-Yes. 49503. Why do not they import them and pay duty, for it would pay at £140 ?-They are importing them as hard as they can. A lot of purifiers came in in the last six months. Of course there are purifiers and purifiers. · 49504. By Mr. Mclntyre.-I suppose you just take the colonial article when you are obliged to? No; that would be discrediting Mr. Bodington; he is as good a mill machinist as there is in the world. But as to rollers, they have not got the materials, and they have :not the opportunity of getting the chilled iron and porcelain. 49505. By the Chairmam.-You have :nothing further to add upon that point ?-No, nothing further. 49506. Those articles are still imported in large numbers now, and pay the duty ?-Yes. 49507. And they only buy the colonial article at an enhanced price when there are none of the imported in the market?-Yes. The witness 'll!ithdrew.. Willialli Aitkeu sworn and examined. 49508. By the Chairman.-What firm do you represent ?-Aitkeu and Scott. 49509. Where is your mill situated ?-In Carlton. 49510. How long have you been a miller in the colony ?-Since 1854. 49511. How many hands are you employing ?-I think about twenty hands. 49512. Will you point out to the Commission, please, the points wherein you differ from the previous witnesses ?-It places me almost in an invidious position to do so, because Mr. Gibson and Mr. Brunton both have been importing this patent machinery, and we have got none of them, and I can only speak from my experience of the ordinary machinery. I think that the results that have been shown from the patent machinery, or almost the same results, could be got from our machinery now in operation. Mr. Brunton says our machinery is as old as Pharaoh ; I think that is an argument in its favour. If it has stood that time there must be something good in it. 49513. Do I understand your evidence to go to this point, that you do not want the duty off patent machinery ?-No. 49514. The question as to which is the whiter flour is not a question for us to consider at all; our question is what you recommend in relation to the duty. The previous witnesses agree that it would be a good thing to take off the duty upon patent machinery; do you disagree with them ?-I could not give an opinion upon that, because we can get on without it; besides which, I think the machinery could be made in the colony except some parts of it; all the rest could be made in the colony. 49515. On whatever point do you differ from them ?-I would rather the Commission would ask me questions than that I should make statements. 49516. I want to save your time and the time of the Commission too. I understood that you wished to be examined because you differed from the previous witnesses upon some points material to the question. If you do not differ from them, it is no use going on. However, I will ask you do you agree with the previous witnesses as to taking off the duty on wheat ?-No, I do not. 49517. Will you state to the Commission your grounds for objecting to the removal of it ?-I know as to the town millers it would be an advantage to them, but it would be much to the detriment of the farmers of this country, if the duties are taken off. 49518. If it were to the detriment of the farmers would it be to the interest of the millers ?-They are pretty nearly identicaL 49519. Then would it be to the interest of the miller to have this duty taken off?-Yes, because then :Melbourne would be a sort of emporium for the whole of the colonies-a centre to which all the grain would come to be treated. It would be good for the ::Ylelbourne merchants and millers., but it would act prejudicially to the farmers ancl country millers. ' 49520. Have you got any facts to support that opinion ?-The facts are these; that before there was a duty upon wheat, flour was dearer. :Flour is cheaper in Melbourne now than it was then, ancl it is cheaper in Melbourne at the present moment than in any other part of the colonies, except perhaps New Zealand. 49521. Have you any opinion to express or any evidence to give in relation to the duty upon barley and oats-do you deal in those articles ttt all ?-~o, that is more a question for farmers. T.i.ntl
Page 1 and 2:
1401 47±25. How many pounds do the
Page 3 and 4:
1403 4748±. You say you received t
Page 5 and 6:
1405 475±9. Do yon mean to say it
Page 7 and 8:
1407 told me thttt they preferred l
Page 9 and 10:
1409 because the revenue would not
Page 11 and 12:
1411 47743. How was that divided be
Page 13 and 14: l4:13 47824. Y on did not need to a
Page 15 and 16: 1415 Yarraville constructed and mai
Page 17 and 18: 1417 47927. You clo not call bungs
Page 19 and 20: 14Hl 47998. You cut litt.le corks o
Page 21 and 22: 1421 48060. Would the public get th
Page 23 and 24: 1423 48145 . .Are they aule to comp
Page 25 and 26: 1425 48210. How many hours do they
Page 27 and 28: 1427 48283. What prevented you from
Page 29 and 30: '1429 Frederick Kennon sworn and ex
Page 31 and 32: 1431 Gillman Goodrich Pearce sworn
Page 33 and 34: 1433 48483. Who uses condensed milk
Page 35 and 36: 1435 48563. The removal of the duty
Page 37 and 38: 1437 48631. How can you make ends t
Page 39 and 40: 1439 people in the country ?-I thin
Page 41 and 42: 1441 the ld. is taken off, the mine
Page 43 and 44: 1443 48793. Is it a success ?-It wa
Page 45 and 46: 1445 48854. No, all the evidence we
Page 47 and 48: c 1447 are sold at 10d., that would
Page 49 and 50: 1449 duty th11t is upon fhinnels-is
Page 51 and 52: 1451 49028. But also the value?-Yes
Page 53 and 54: 1453 49088. Have you any reason to
Page 55 and 56: 1455 when we commenced as nmnufactu
Page 57 and 58: 1457 49236. Has there been any fall
Page 59 and 60: 1459 49302. Have you tried Queensla
Page 61 and 62: 1461 49367. I understand that you s
Page 63: 1463 taken the place of mill-stones
Page 67 and 68: 1467 4·9558. Youwoufd not be dispo
Page 69 and 70: 1469 49629. Where do you get your r
Page 71 and 72: 1471 49704. Approve of what ?-You t
Page 73 and 74: 1473 49786. Oats have not yet reach
Page 75 and 76: 1475 49854. Will you give us a case
Page 77 and 78: 1417 49922. What pTopoTtion does th
Page 79 and 80: 1479 49981. You think they should p
Page 81 and 82: 1481 John Rigby Non·is sworn and e
Page 83 and 84: 1483 50i 17. Are yon in the habit o
Page 85 and 86: 1485 50183. By JYir. Longmore.-Do y
Page 87 and 88: -14:8:7 50238. By 11£1·. Longmore
Page 89 and 90: 1489 .'i0314. Do you export to Sydn
Page 91 and 92: 1491 Henry Berry sworn and examinet
Page 93 and 94: ]493 50429. That being the case, an
Page 95 and 96: 1495 50498. In what way ?-Something
Page 97 and 98: 1497 50578. What woulL1 you do for
Page 99 and 100: 1499 The Cftairrnan.-Quitc right. 5
Page 101 and 102: 1501 50689. Are you opposed to the
Page 103 and 104: 1503 50755. Thn.t leaves you 836 ac
Page 105 and 106: 1505 50807. Is that what you want t
Page 107 and 108: 1507 50881. At the present price of
Page 109: 1509 {)0950. Where were you living
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Minutes of Evidence p.1401-1509 - Parliament of Victoria

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