Minutes of Evidence p.1401-1509 - Parliament of Victoria

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ll, w. Bartmm, 9th May 1883, 1488 Haworth William Bartram sworn and examined. 50276. By tlw Chairman.-You are of the firm of Bartram and Son ?-Yes. 50277. What are you ?-Produce merchant. 50278. Where is your place of business ?-8 Queen street. 50279. How long hn;ve you been in business as a produce merchant ?-Twelve years. 50280. Did the tariff influence you in starting your business in any way ?-Not in the least 50281. What is the nature of the evidence you desire to submit to the Commission in reference to the tariff-in what way does it affect your business?-We deal chiefly in butter and cheese, and those articles are now exported to so large an extent that there is no necessity, I think, for any duty · 50282. The duty upon butter is 2cl. lb., and upon cheese 2d. a lb.?-Yes. 50283. Then I understand you to say that the duty of 2c1. a lb. upon butter and cheese is prejudicial to your business ?-I do not see that it affects it but very slightly, it is troublesome at times when the market is scarce, and we have to operate somewhat in bond, in the case of repacking, and in that way. Bnt as a rule, in fact altogether, it is an export business, not an import business. 5028,1. Then it is immaterial to you whether it continues or not ?-Except that at times there may have been a little over exportation and the consumer may have to pay for it inwards at the end of the season. 50285. You see it would be very clifficult for the legislature to make a law here that shall have a certain operation in times of plenty and an opposite effect in times of scarcity. Does it affect you ?-It may occasionally, but not much. 50286. As a general rule it does not '?-As a general rule it does not, the exports are so large. 50287. We are producing so much that there is no necessity for it ?- Just so. Since 1878 we have exported over 1,000,000 lbs. weight of cheese per annum on the average. 50288. And how much butter ·?-2,000,000 lbs. of butter in 1881. 50289. Are you still exporting ?-Yes, very largely. I have not got the amounts made for tllis year, but they are approximating to those of last year-in cheese at any rate. 50290. How long is it since we became importers, is it since you were in the business ?-I have a table here copied from the "Australasian Trade Review"- [producing the same]. 50291. Can you give evidence from your own experience as a produce merchant. When did you - begin to export '?-Largely do you mean? 50292. Yes ?-In 1878, particularly in cheese. 5029 3. Has your exportation been increasing since then ?- Y os. 50294. Or has it been standing still ?-We have been increasing. 50295. You have had no year of scarcity since 1878 ?-Not a year of scarcity, but last year, we exported a little too much. 50296. As a matter of fact butter and cheese were both very high in price, and have been high in price for two or three years past ?-Yes. 50297. And still your exportation goes on?-Yes, as trade has grown from the colonies. 50298. Where do you export to mostly ?-Nearly all the colonies buy from here, Queensland and South Australia, and Western Australia and Sydney ; there is a large export trade growing up now. 50299. How comes it now that there is any importation at; all, it is very small; butter gave us £19 in the way of duty in 1881, and cheese £75. What class of article would that be, English Stilton, and other famous cheeses ?-A little of that, chiefly that, I should say. 50300. The butter was a mere bagatelle ?-Yes. 50301. You think the duty is unnecessary, and does not effect your business ?-Entirely unnecessary. 50302. Do you deal in bacon ?-Yes. 50303. Does the same evidence apply to bacon ?-It does in one sense, and still there is a duty. 50304. How is that ?-There is a large quantity of bacon made now over ancl above the require· ments here, and it is exported, and still there is the duty. 50305. In 1881 the duty collected upon bacon was £24, so not much comes in ?-No, it is an export thing. 50306. Is there anything else you wish to submit to the Commission ?-No, but I may mention that I am not a manufacturer. There are two gentlemen here who make hams and bacon. The witness withdrew. James C. Hutton sworn and examined. J. c.llutton, 50307. By Mr. M-irams.-What are you ?-Ham o.nd bacon curer, and butter and cheese merchant. 9thlliaylSSa. 50308. The previous witness spoke of butter, you heard his evidence, have you anything material to add to it ?-In reference to the duties in the colonies, I may state, that all the colonies have about the same duty, that is 2d. on bacon, 2d. on butter, and 2d. on cheese, vvith the exception of Sydney, and the duty on butter in Sydney is not in operation, and in South Australia. 50309. Then do the duties in the other colonies affect you ?-It curtails our trade a little, but not much. 50310. The duties in other colonies ?-Yes. 50311. But we cannot affect them unless we can get some sort of reciprocity ; there is no duty upon butter in New Zealand, or in South Australia ?-No, the duties here have had a good effect upon our industries in Victoria. 50312. Have you reached the stage when you can do without them ?-I would not like to say that exactly, hut I may say that the influences of climate are in our favour; we have a fine climate for ham and bacon curing, and butter and cheese making, which gives 11s a great advantage over many of the other colonies, especially the northern ones. The produce of Victoria in that line is so very much superior to anything the other colonies produce, that it fetches a higher price. 50313, With all those advantages, and seeing you are so firmly established, would it injure your business if the duties were removed ?-If we had the same faeilities in the other colonies. You must consider this matter in connection with our business, as a, question of seasons very often.
1489 .'i0314. Do you export to Sydney?--No. 50315. It doos not affect you there ?-No. 50316. Do yon export to South Australia ?-Yes. 50317. It is free in South Australia ?-Butter is free. 50318. And there is 2d. a pound on the other things~cheese, bacon, and hmn?-Yes .. 50!319 .. And it is the same in New South Wales as it is here?-The smne in :N"ew South Wales. 50320. Do yon say you would like to ml1ke the reduction of the duties upon these articles here a rel1sou for getting the other colonies to reduce in the same Wl1y?-Yes. 5032!. Suppose we cannot do that ?-Then let the duties reml1in as they are. 50322. Since you are exporting, having reached that stage, what benefit are the import duties to yon ?-In a glut in some of the other colonies they might flood our mnrkets with stuff, and interfere with our manufacturing operations in a given season ; for instance, last year there was a great scarcity of pigs in Victoria, and bacon was pretty dear, and it was remark~bly cheap in New Zealand, and we were protected f!·om a glut in New Zealand by the duty. 50323. Did you import the pigs and make them into bacon here?-Not from New Zealand. 50324. 1 l{ ould it not have a good effect to have no duty, and to import from New Zealand in a scarce season here ?-:N" ot on me as a manufacturer ; I mn not a commission merchant. 50325. Have you anything else to say?-In reference to the dnty on pigs, during the winter months we are eompelled to get large supplies of mnize feed from the Twofold Bay district. In fact the supply of pigs in Victoria is so very small that that has been onr dilJiculty. There is a 2s. duty upon those pigs; it would be to the interest of our trade, I think, if the duty was removed, seeing we export more bacon than ive get pigs, and it is a question ofimpossibility to get dmwback for bacon upon imported pigs. 50326. The drawback wonlcl not be much ?-Yes, indeed it would; if you get 200 sides a week there is £10 a week, and that is a pretty fair income. 50327. Have you anything further to add ?-Nothing further. 50328. Do you agree with the previous witness upon the main points he put forward ?-Yes. 50329. By the 0/w·irman.-Of course the pigs are your raw material ?-Yes. 50330. Y on wnnt yom raw material free ?-Yes, we do. 50331. Is not this raw material the article which many farmers in this country grow-do not they grow pigs ?-Decidedly. · 50332. Do not you think they should have tl1esume assist..'l.ncefrom the State that you have yourself? Yes, clecidedly; but I wish to point ont that these pigs come in dnring the winter months when there is no supply of pigs, compamtivoly speaking, in Victoria; aml it is a fact that most of this stuff cmed we export to Queensland. Most of the that we buy here, during those seasons, are sent to Queensland and other places. 50333. By ltf;·. Mirams.-Does the 2s .. npon pigs have the effect o£ enhancing the price of pigs in this colony ?-Yes, and it effects the supply considerably. 50334, So it benefits the farmer to the extent of the duty ?-I cannot see that it does, for he has no pigs to sell. 50:135. But I asked you whether the farmer, when he has pigs to sell, gets a higher price in con~ sequence of the duty ?-No, I do not think it affects him a farthing. 50336. Would it affect the market here when there is a good supply of Victorian pig a?-Yes, I believe it would then. 50337. To that extent then it wonlcl be an assistance to 1:he farmers to leave it as it is ?-Yes, to that extent it would. The ~vitness w1:tlldrew. Gilman Goodrich Pierce sworn and examined. 50338. By tlte Cl!a;:rman.-What are you ?-I urn now manager of a cheese factory. 50339. Do you wish to give evidence upon the question of cheese ?-Yes, cheese exclusively. 50340. You heard the evidence of the previous witnesRes in relation to the duty upoh cheese. Tile first witness was of opinion, I think, that the duty should be taken off ?-My opinion is that it should not be meddled with at all. It suits me very well as it is in every respect. I wonlcl dislike to see it tampered with in any respect whatever. I am decidedly of that opinion. 50341. That we ought to let it alone '?-Let it alone. Things go very well, things have settled into a groove, things are going on well under the present tariff, I think it suits all interests, ami I would not like them disturbed. 50342. Is your factory turning out much cheese ?-I am ma.nager of four of five factories; this year 1\Te tumed ont 90 tons. 50343. From your factories ?-Yes, it has been a late summer season, not a long season, I have often turned out 170 tons in the year. · 50344. This seuson has not been such a good one ?-Not so long, it is very short. 50345. Have the cows c1Toppecl off milking more qnic;kly this season ?-Very quick, it was a short and quick run. 50346. Do you exportthe cheese principally ?-We export the majority of it. We sell a good deal here, bnt we export, I think, the largest part. 50347. Since you sell most of your cheese abroad, how does the duty remaining on give you :>"ny assistance in your industry ?-In answering that question, I might st1tte that had not you adopted the protective system here, I should not have had any cheese to export at all. I should not have been iu the business, and I do not think the time has yet come to take it off. . 50348. I am only trying to get at your reason for your opinion. 'You are a practical man, and we expect practical men when they give practical opinions of that sort to give reasons for them ?-I am a conservative enough not to like to see it disturbed. There may be a lot of theory as to how it would work, bnt I do not like to see it disturbed. That is all. 50349. Have you anything further to say ?-That is all, I think. 50350. If this duty were removecl to-morrow, would it affect, in your opinion, yom business in the slightest degree ?-I think New Zealand would flood us with cheese. It might uot be just now 7 hut taking it year by year it would. J. C. F!utton, continued, 9th lllay 1883. 0~ G. Pierce, 9th May 1883,
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1401 47±25. How many pounds do the
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1403 4748±. You say you received t
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1405 475±9. Do yon mean to say it
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1407 told me thttt they preferred l
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1409 because the revenue would not
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1411 47743. How was that divided be
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l4:13 47824. Y on did not need to a
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1415 Yarraville constructed and mai
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1417 47927. You clo not call bungs
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14Hl 47998. You cut litt.le corks o
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1421 48060. Would the public get th
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1423 48145 . .Are they aule to comp
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1425 48210. How many hours do they
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1427 48283. What prevented you from
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'1429 Frederick Kennon sworn and ex
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1431 Gillman Goodrich Pearce sworn
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1433 48483. Who uses condensed milk
Page 35 and 36:
1435 48563. The removal of the duty
Page 37 and 38: 1437 48631. How can you make ends t
Page 39 and 40: 1439 people in the country ?-I thin
Page 41 and 42: 1441 the ld. is taken off, the mine
Page 43 and 44: 1443 48793. Is it a success ?-It wa
Page 45 and 46: 1445 48854. No, all the evidence we
Page 47 and 48: c 1447 are sold at 10d., that would
Page 49 and 50: 1449 duty th11t is upon fhinnels-is
Page 51 and 52: 1451 49028. But also the value?-Yes
Page 53 and 54: 1453 49088. Have you any reason to
Page 55 and 56: 1455 when we commenced as nmnufactu
Page 57 and 58: 1457 49236. Has there been any fall
Page 59 and 60: 1459 49302. Have you tried Queensla
Page 61 and 62: 1461 49367. I understand that you s
Page 63 and 64: 1463 taken the place of mill-stones
Page 65 and 66: 1465 49494. Do you think you could
Page 67 and 68: 1467 4·9558. Youwoufd not be dispo
Page 69 and 70: 1469 49629. Where do you get your r
Page 71 and 72: 1471 49704. Approve of what ?-You t
Page 73 and 74: 1473 49786. Oats have not yet reach
Page 75 and 76: 1475 49854. Will you give us a case
Page 77 and 78: 1417 49922. What pTopoTtion does th
Page 79 and 80: 1479 49981. You think they should p
Page 81 and 82: 1481 John Rigby Non·is sworn and e
Page 83 and 84: 1483 50i 17. Are yon in the habit o
Page 85 and 86: 1485 50183. By JYir. Longmore.-Do y
Page 87: -14:8:7 50238. By 11£1·. Longmore
Page 91 and 92: 1491 Henry Berry sworn and examinet
Page 93 and 94: ]493 50429. That being the case, an
Page 95 and 96: 1495 50498. In what way ?-Something
Page 97 and 98: 1497 50578. What woulL1 you do for
Page 99 and 100: 1499 The Cftairrnan.-Quitc right. 5
Page 101 and 102: 1501 50689. Are you opposed to the
Page 103 and 104: 1503 50755. Thn.t leaves you 836 ac
Page 105 and 106: 1505 50807. Is that what you want t
Page 107 and 108: 1507 50881. At the present price of
Page 109: 1509 {)0950. Where were you living
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Minutes of Evidence p.1401-1509 - Parliament of Victoria

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