Minutes of Evidence p.1401-1509 - Parliament of Victoria

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1\Iontag.ue Levy, on a label, what they eaU a tag, and on their best colonial manufactured as they were termed, upon their 26 t~ 0 f~;ftefsss. crack O'oods, yesterday here, they are also putting a label, but they are not distinguishable enough, they are merelyb tin tags, and the public as long as they see the tin tags do not look into it. It is very umlis-, tin(J'uislmble : it should be more decided umler Act of Parliament. "' 47636. You suggest that colonial manufacturers should be compelled to put on n brand that the public could know it by ?-Just so. 47637. So that the public could get a cheaper article at a cheaper rate ?-Yes, just so. 47638. And not be imposed upon by being charged t)le imported article rate for ihe colonial article ? -Yes ; and if the dut.y were reduced a shilling a pound, or even 6d. a pound, Mr. Baskerville's argument falls to the grouurl. because, as regards the consumer not being benefited, tobacco comes out made in plugs to suit the duty. Before the imposition of this extra shilling, tobaccoes were ret;cilecl ten and five to the pound for 6d. and n shilling. After the imposition they came out six and twelve to the pouml. If it were reduced 6d. they would come out eleven and five and a-half to the pound, so that the public would reap the benefit. 47639. They get a little more weight or a little less weight ?-According to the duty. As regards the labelling, it is ~arriecl on to a very large extent here. I could mention shops in town where it has been done-I Llo not know if it is clone now-and I have seen 1t clone myself in the country. The only suggestion I hllve to make is, that the Customs department, as they protect the hotelkeepers and the public by sending round inspectors, so they should protect us, by sending inspectors from the. Excise department. 47640. Let the Excise officers inspect?-Yes. 476-!1. Have you anything further to add ?-Not upon tobacco. 47642. Have you upon cigars ?-Yes. The cigarmakers were examined yestercla.y, and they all aO'ree that the one shilling extra duty lk'ls not benefited them, because it was put also upon the imported leaf; c~nseqnently they have only the mme amount of protection as they had before, and not one of t.hem admitted that they use any colonhtlleaf; they all denied 11sing it, as it was unfit for consumption or for manufacturing cigars; consequently the growers do not rec10ive any benefit from the protective duty; and I think if imported leaf were admitted free ancl the excise of a shilling a pound still collected upon the cigars, they would not then have to pay duty upon the stalks that they complain of, and cigars would be manufactured with leaf admitted free. 47643. They Llo not pny upon the stalks now. The cigars are stemmed first ?-If the leaf were admitted free and cigars admittell at 5s. a p01md, as before, it would not interfere with them, nncl tile public would get the benefit, and it would not seriously interfere with the revenue because the colonialmanufncturers, I may tell you, are now unable to cope 11;ith the demaml. . 47644. Cannot supply all the orders ?-They cannot, and I am at liberty to instance the name of a gentleman in the trade who has not been summoned here who wanted to give a branch of the trade his special attention. 476-!5. Do not give any hearsay evidence please~you do not buy colonial tobacco at n.ll ?-I buy colonial cigars, and I find a Jifficnlty even in the few I use, to get my orders executed. Of course you could forestall that by ordering in advance, but a man who does a regular business cannot replace by orders within a reasonable time. 47GJG. Anything further to add ?-Yes, that a licence of £25 or a bond fide licence, I do not sn.y the amount-I suggest that-be placed upon tobacconists instead of the foolish registration duty now of 5s., which I fail to see the use of. vV e are licensed now for 5s. a year. 47647. Yon recommend they should be licensed the same as publicans ?-Yes, to a certain extent, and I will tell you why, that dealing largely in an article on which there is excise lhity and import duty, I think it shoulcl be in the hands of reputed respectable people, and it would tend to raise the tone of the trade and preYent a great deal of smuggling going on, because all those Chinese cigars that were smuggled recently found their way into the hands of very small people, and the moment they came to the legitimate trade the whole affair was exposed, and, of course, we are placed at a disadvantage in that way. 47 6-!8. Anything fnrther ?-No. 47649. Bp A11·. Zox.-Do you think that the mere fact of raising the registration fee from 5s. to £25 would have the Llesired effect of placing the business in the hands of respectable men ?-I llo. 47650. Why ?-There is no system that would be introduced that would not be abused. I know that very well ; but anyone is at liberty now to buy half a dozen oranges and half of fifty cignrs and 5s, worth of tobacco and they can open a tobacconist's shop. 47():)1. Why should they be debarred from trading as long as they carry on their business respectably ?-I do not think they would be debarred; but it would debar many grocers from meddling in that line ancl making it a cutting line in which we are engaged, and have to make a Teady money outlay ; and even the small men would reap the benefit, as I admit it. would be unfair to tax a small man as much as a large man. If it could be armnged upon a sliding scale according to the rental paid it would be better. 47652. In point of fact, you think it should be a monopoly to men who could pay a certain amount of money ?-Just the same as .licensed victunllers are licensed. 47653. Is there any difficulty for an expert to detect between American manufactured tobacco and colonial manufactnred tobacco ?-Yes, there is a difficulty. 47654. What is the difference ? - There is a great difference between the average colonial article and the imported in quality. 47G55. I asked, would there be any difficulty for experts in judging between American tobaccoes? Any ordinary man smoking it could tell the difference, but even an expert might be deceived by the eye. 47656. Then you desire an officer to be appointed under the Act to distinguish between the two tobaccoes ?-Yes; I will tell you how it would work. An inspector comes into my shop and says," Is this Two Seas?" ''Yes." " .. Where did you buy it?" ''I pnid duty upon it ; I could show you I paid duty upon it." Or if I bought it I could produce the invoice ; but if I have no imported tobacco in my place the officer could easily jLHlge that the public were being imposed upon. · 47657. What benefit would accrne from the total abolition of the duty upon importedlea.f ?-You could not consistently reduce imported tobacco without reducing the imported leaf, and I suggest that, 1408
1409 because the revenue would not be clecreasecl so largely, and because the shillina excise duty would be still Montague Levy, ll l b h l ' l d · d l f. ~ contitmed. eo ectec upon ot eo oma an 1mporte ea . 2ilth Aprn 1 ss 3 • 47658. It was not suggested that there should be a total abolition of the duty upon the manufactured article ?-I would reduce it to 2s. 47659. You go in for the entire abolition of the duty upon leaf ?-Yes. 47660. Why ?-Because we have had proof that the farmers, for whose benefit it was imposed, have not benefited by it, and the pnblic have to pay it. 47661. Supposing the entire abolition of imported leaf were to be agreed upon, would it not of necessity reduce the consumption of the colonial-grown article ?-I do not think so. 47662. Why not ?-Because we have proof of an immense difference between the colonial-o-rown 0 leaf and the .American leaf. 47663. Yon say the .American leaf is so far superior ?-So it is. 47664. If the public are able to obtain a superior article from the .American leaf they would not have the colonial leaf?-They can produce it so much cheaper from the colonial leaf, colonial-grown is so much cheaper. 47665. What is the difference between .American leaf and colonial-growu ?-I do not deal in leaf, but .American is from lOd. to l6cl. and the colonial is 6d. 47666. By lJfr. Woods.-Could not a single invoice be made to cover any quantity of tobacco. I understood you to say that if your tobacco were challenged by an inspector, you would answer that by producing the invoice ?-Yes. 47667. Would that necessarily apply to that tobacco ?-You would have to show the box. 47668. You could show a box ?~Yes. 4'7 669. Could not you show twenty boxes on the same invoice, one after the other?-You could, but you would have to show whether it was imported or colonial. The invoice would have to guide you. 47670. I understood you to say even experts could not tell the difference ?-Not by sight, by smoking they could. 47671. By iWr. Walker.-You said you formerly had an intercolonial trade with Riverina ?-Yes. 47672. And you have lost it ?-Yes. 47673. Is that owing to the difference in duty between here and New South Wales ?-Yes, I attribute it to that. 47674. Cannot you ship tobacco in bond?-Yes, but I am not in the wholesale trade, and I sell to gentlemen who do not buy sufficient to ship in bond. 47675. That does not shut out the wholesale traders, does it ?-No. 47676 . .As to branding tobacco, I understand that to apply to boxes ?-Boxes and tobacco too. 47677. But the public never see the boxes ?-No. 47678. It would be no protection to them to brand boxes ?-No. 47679. W onld yon recommend every plug of tobacco to be branded?-Yes. 47680. Wherever it is from ?-Yes. 47681. You do not mean only to brand colonial tobacco ?-We cannot of course compel .Americans to do it. 47682. Yes you can ?-They do it for their own protection. 47683. Is all Americau tobacco branded upon the plug ?-No. 47684. Then if the law were altered to compel their tobacco to be branded upon the plug, would not that be a protection to the public to see what they were buying?-Yes. 47685 . .And do away to a great extent with the necessity for inspection that you speak of ?-Yes. 47686. With regard to the reduction of cluty-'-would not your views be met, and your idea be met, if the excise duty were to be increased, and leave the duty as it is upon imported tobacco ?-No. 47687. Why ?-Because the imported tobacco is out of the running in consequence of the price. 47688. Ou acc:unt of the high price ?-On account of the hi~h price. 47689 . .And your experience is that the duties do increase the price of the article ?-:Most decidedly. 47690. Some people think they do not. You say you buy colonial cigars, and sell them again, of course ?-Yes. 47691. Do you mean by that, cigars made here out of imported leaf ?-Yes, supposed to be. I have a sample-I believe they are. 47692 . .Are they made out of imported leaf ?-I believe they are. 47693. Wholly ?-I pay a price to warrant their being so. 47694 . .Are you aware that the quantity of imported leaf has fallen off tremendously in the last two or three years ?-No, I am not. ~" 76H5. The quantity of leaf imported the last two years, that we have any record of, is about half what it was previously-how do you account for that ?-By the consumption of colonial tobacco. 47696. Does it go into consumption as colonial tobacco ?-I do not know that I can account for it any other way, as it cannot be exported. 47697. You sell those cigars as made of imported leaf?-Yes. 4i698. You do not know that it is ?-No; I just use them for the cheap cigar tmde. 47699. By tlte .Hon. Mr. Lorimer.-Have your sales of cigars been diminished by the higher price? -Yes, through the loss of my Riverina trade. · 47700. Do you find the consumption of cigars in any way affected by the higher duty ?-No ; but it reduced our profits considerably in certain brands the public will have, and we lose an additional shilling per pound. We must sell Manilla cigars for 3d., and a first-class Havannah cigar for 6d., brands tlmt you cannot get under a certain price, and the additional ls. per pound comes out of the retailer's profits. 47701. And you consider that the knocking off of the shilling duty upon the imported leaf would be an equivalent to the reduction of the import duty from 6s. to 5s. ?-7 es. · 47702 .. Would it not be more than an equivalent ?-I believe it would, a little more. 47703. Do not you consider that it would be an encouragement to the manufacturer of colonial cigars ?-I do. Tlte witness withdrew. TARIFF. 8Q
Page 1 and 2: 1401 47±25. How many pounds do the
Page 3 and 4: 1403 4748±. You say you received t
Page 5 and 6: 1405 475±9. Do yon mean to say it
Page 7: 1407 told me thttt they preferred l
Page 11 and 12: 1411 47743. How was that divided be
Page 13 and 14: l4:13 47824. Y on did not need to a
Page 15 and 16: 1415 Yarraville constructed and mai
Page 17 and 18: 1417 47927. You clo not call bungs
Page 19 and 20: 14Hl 47998. You cut litt.le corks o
Page 21 and 22: 1421 48060. Would the public get th
Page 23 and 24: 1423 48145 . .Are they aule to comp
Page 25 and 26: 1425 48210. How many hours do they
Page 27 and 28: 1427 48283. What prevented you from
Page 29 and 30: '1429 Frederick Kennon sworn and ex
Page 31 and 32: 1431 Gillman Goodrich Pearce sworn
Page 33 and 34: 1433 48483. Who uses condensed milk
Page 35 and 36: 1435 48563. The removal of the duty
Page 37 and 38: 1437 48631. How can you make ends t
Page 39 and 40: 1439 people in the country ?-I thin
Page 41 and 42: 1441 the ld. is taken off, the mine
Page 43 and 44: 1443 48793. Is it a success ?-It wa
Page 45 and 46: 1445 48854. No, all the evidence we
Page 47 and 48: c 1447 are sold at 10d., that would
Page 49 and 50: 1449 duty th11t is upon fhinnels-is
Page 51 and 52: 1451 49028. But also the value?-Yes
Page 53 and 54: 1453 49088. Have you any reason to
Page 55 and 56: 1455 when we commenced as nmnufactu
Page 57 and 58: 1457 49236. Has there been any fall
Page 59 and 60:
1459 49302. Have you tried Queensla
Page 61 and 62:
1461 49367. I understand that you s
Page 63 and 64:
1463 taken the place of mill-stones
Page 65 and 66:
1465 49494. Do you think you could
Page 67 and 68:
1467 4·9558. Youwoufd not be dispo
Page 69 and 70:
1469 49629. Where do you get your r
Page 71 and 72:
1471 49704. Approve of what ?-You t
Page 73 and 74:
1473 49786. Oats have not yet reach
Page 75 and 76:
1475 49854. Will you give us a case
Page 77 and 78:
1417 49922. What pTopoTtion does th
Page 79 and 80:
1479 49981. You think they should p
Page 81 and 82:
1481 John Rigby Non·is sworn and e
Page 83 and 84:
1483 50i 17. Are yon in the habit o
Page 85 and 86:
1485 50183. By JYir. Longmore.-Do y
Page 87 and 88:
-14:8:7 50238. By 11£1·. Longmore
Page 89 and 90:
1489 .'i0314. Do you export to Sydn
Page 91 and 92:
1491 Henry Berry sworn and examinet
Page 93 and 94:
]493 50429. That being the case, an
Page 95 and 96:
1495 50498. In what way ?-Something
Page 97 and 98:
1497 50578. What woulL1 you do for
Page 99 and 100:
1499 The Cftairrnan.-Quitc right. 5
Page 101 and 102:
1501 50689. Are you opposed to the
Page 103 and 104:
1503 50755. Thn.t leaves you 836 ac
Page 105 and 106:
1505 50807. Is that what you want t
Page 107 and 108:
1507 50881. At the present price of
Page 109:
1509 {)0950. Where were you living
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Minutes of Evidence p.1401-1509 - Parliament of Victoria

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