Minutes of Evidence p.1401-1509 - Parliament of Victoria

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WUllam Altken, continued, 8th May 1883. 1466 49522. Do you do an export trade ?-We do nothing in that. . 49523. Ha-ve yon anything further to add?-Nothing but this, that a great deal has been smd about the different grades in flour and the qualities and nutriment in wheat. Here, in Melbourne, the poorest people eat the -very best of flour, they will not have two grades of flour, and this patent mac~nery is no use unless it does make different grades. The present machinery in use makes the one grade, whteh apparently is suitable to the present wants of the community. In those places or countries where there are different classes of people, some of whom want -very fine bread, the machinery is no. doubt adapted to them. But here, where every one is alike, the old machinery we find suits the purpose quite well. 49524. By Jir Walker.-You say that the old machinery is perfectly well adapted to this colony, but do you do an export trade in flour at all wholly a town trade. 49525. Suppose you did an export trade, would not that patent machinery be very useful to you? I cannot say. 49526. You would not contradict the evidence of those millers who do an export trade ?-Decidedly not. 49527. You say a great deal of the machinery spoken to by the other millers could be made here ; do yon known that of your own knowledge ?-I do not know the new machir1ery tl:mt has just come out; but speaking about the purifiers, they are a late introduction into the trade. After they were imported here they began to be made here equal to the imported. 49528. What is the difference in the price; do yoU: agree >vith the difference stated already ?-No, I think not. The difference is this. , You could order boots, for instance, from home, two pairs--you might order one pair worth 15s. and the other £1, and there would be a difference in the manufacture and the way they are got up. Ml529. Which is the best-the imported one or the colonial-made ?-I believe the colonial works equally well with the imported. 49530. You ha-ve no knowledge yourself of that ?-No. 49531. In regard to the duty on wheat, you said that the injury done by taking off the duty 11pon wheat would be to the farmers ?-To the farmers especittlly. 49532. You said also that it would be a benefit to Melbourne, as it would make Melbourne the emporium for the distribution of wheat ?-I think so. 49533. You are a Melbourne miller, are you not ?-Yes. 49534. And you give this evidence solely in the interests of the country 49535. And against your own interests ?-And against my own interests. 49536. By .Lltfr. JJiaintyre.-You said that, in your .opinion, if the duty were taken off wheat, it would act prejudicially to the farmers. You did not explain how-how could it be prejudicial to the farmers; is not the English market the standarcl for the price of wheat ?-I will tell you. 49537. Do not we produce more wheat than we consume ?-We do. 49538. Are we likely to be falling back in our production ?-I do not know. 49539. Suppose we continue just to produce more than we consume, in what way would the duty taken off wheat be detrimental to the farming interest ?-In this way ; carriage is cheaper by wnter than it is by land, and have seen the time in Melbourne here when we could order wheat from from Adelaide, and get it quicker and cheaper from A.delaide than we could from a distance of 35 miles from Melbourne. 49540. You are!not likely to see those times ugain ?-No; but the principle works the same way. 49541. In that case it would just add to the quantity we should require to produce ?-Here? 49542. Yes ?-Yes. of course. 49543. How could that be detrimental to the farmer ?-If this is made a centre, and there is an .outlet in other places, naturally the country places would suffer. 49544. But he is always exporting; you cannot consume what he you now. Another thing that you said-wheat was cheaper now than it was formerly; we all know that, but you surely do not mean to say that it is cheaper because of the tax being put upon it ?-It is the result of the tax being put upon it, in my opinion. 4954.5. But does not the London market govern it in the first place '?-Yes ; but you arc not putting the question so a~ to draw out the answer to it in the right manner. If you put the question right, we we should never have been exporters but for the duty. 49546. We became large producers by that ?-Yes, by the duty. 49547. Having got that, how would it affect us ?-I do not think it would affect us much ; but the effect would be that whife labour is cheaper in South ~ustralia, and they can farm in South Australia cheaper than we c:1n clo they, that, can compete With our farmers here. 49548. How you know that labom is cheaper in South A nstralia? -Because all their harvesting is done by strippers there, and we cannot use them here. 49.549. But it is done here in a great many places ?-\Vherever they can use them, but there are a great many places where they cannot use them. 49550. And so there are in Sonth Australia ?-I think there are not many plaees in South Austr11lia where thcv c11unot llse them. 49551. the Hon. JJ{r. Lo1·inwr.-Do you object to the removal of duty upon machinery ?-Not at all. 49552. Do you approve of the remova:-would it benefit any one else ?-I do not know ; I do not give an opinion; I am perfectly indifferent. 49553. You do uot ebject to the removal of the duties ?-Cert11inly not. 49554. If n class of millers advocate the remov11l of the duties, you would appro-ve of it 7-I would not oppose it. -19555. Do you think you would import them more extensively if that were done ?-They are only an experiment here If they turn out a success, of course they will be more imported. · 4955G. Do you think they me not going to be a success ?-I would not like to make the experiment yet. 49557. Do you know whether they have been p, success in other parts of the world ?-In England and America they are very much divided in opinion. Some of them are throwing over the rollers for the stones, and I think, frqm what I learn by reading, that the two go best together-the rollers and. the stones.
1467 4·9558. Youwoufd not be dispo~ed to try tl1em yourself?-Not in the meantime. 49559 .. Are there any other duties that you think ought to be removed-do you approve of upon corn sacks ?-I think nothing presses very heavy upoft its. 49560. Some people think there is no reason'why it should press at all-do .you think it would be an a:clv:antage to the trade to have the duty oft' ?-I do not think it would be much advantage. 49561. Would it make things cheaper ?-It would have that tendency. 49562. I suppose you will not argue t.hat a duty on corn s::wks at all toffect£ the price ?-It is felt, I think, as a burthen. 49563. The manufacturers cannot compete in any case with Calcutta, I suppose, duty or no duty? -I think not. I am quite at one with Mr. Brunton that where the raw material is not at hand there should not be duty in any case. 49564. By Jlfr. Bosisto.-Have you had any experience in reference to the growing of wheat upon the same soil year after year about the amount of flour derived from the wheat ?-No, I have no experience of that. 49565. Is there not a possibility that the farmers are working against you millers by working upon the same soil for the same material year after year ?-No doubt that that is a drawback. 49566. A great drawback ?-Yes, no doubt of it. Tl•e ~Ditness withdrew. Leonarcl J ones sworn and examined. 49567. By the Chairman.-What firm do you represent ?-James F. McKenzic ::tnd Company. 49568. Where is your firm established ?-In Bond-street, Melbourne. 49569. How long has it been established ?-Since 1852 ; that is, not in Boml-street, that is in Melbourne. · 49570 .. That is 30 years; how many hands are you employing now?-We are employing 30 men, 20 boys; and 20 girls. 49571. Do you take the boys on as apprentices ?-No. 49572. Do you pay them wages from the first ?-Yes. 49573. Do you pay them piece work dr day work ?-Per week. 49574. What do you commence their wages at ?-We start them at 7s. 49575. About what age are they when you take them at that ?-About f01n·teen years of age. 49576. How do you increase them ?-"VVe advance them after they have been six months a shilling a week, and then I do not know exactly how after that. H they are capable, we advance them a shilling or eighteen pence. · 49577. And when they are full journeymen what can they earn ?-They are not exactly journeymen in our place, packers and others. 49578. They do not remain in the business then ?-They do not remain in the business. 49579. No technical knowledge they acquire enables them to get a living afterwards except in some branches. foremen and so on. 49580. vVhat are the principal lines you manufacture ?-We manufacture oatmeal, mustanl, cocoa, chicory, pearl barley, split peas, patent groats and barley, and a great number of other things. 49581. What of those items are affected by the tariff ?-Oatmeal is affected. 49582. Will you pick out those from your list which are affected by the tariff and upon which you wish to give evidence; have you got them ready marked ?-Yes, I have. 49583. Will you let me have them, please ?-All that I wish to speak about is mustard, and that has reference to a matter ~•bout which I do not know whether it is within the province of this Commission. We labour under a disadvantage in llaving to conform to a certail1 clause in the Food Adulteration Act, and we have to label our mustard as containing other wholesome ingredients. 49584. Do I understand you to say that mustard is the only item out of that list upon which you wish to give evidence ?-Yes. 49585. You are satisfied with the duty as it affects all the other articles ?-No, I would like to add oats to the mustard. 49586. The otber items in t.he list which are duti.able you are satisfied for the duty to remain Ul)On as it is ?-I am. · . 49587: Now about mustard frrst; what is it you wish to say in relation to that ·?-We have got to comply with a clause in the Adulteration of Food Act; we are compelled to put this upon our label, ''This tin contains pure mustard with other wholesome ingredients used in the preparation of double superfine mustard." I do not object to that being on; it is very necessary it should be on; but still the imported article, made by Colman, does not bear that; and I think if we are compelled to put it on, the imported article should be compelled to have it on. 49588. Are you compelled to put this statement upon all qualities of your mustard upon every article we manufacture. 49589. Are the importers exempt from that restriction in relation to any of the imported goods they send here ?-I do not know. You see it is not upon this label. 49590. You show us here one label, and the statement is not on, but if you showed us the label of another quality of mustarcl, say, would you not find that statement upon it ?-I do not think it is upon any other quality, none that I know of. 49591. None of Colman's ?-None of Colman's. 49592. I understand you not to object to this law or its operation ?-Not at all. 49593. All that you object to is that it is partial in its operation, applying only to the local men and not to the importers ?-That is it exactly. , 49594. If it applied to both, you would be perfectly satisfied ?-If it applied to both I would be perfectly satisfied. 49595. Is that all you have to say about mustard that is all. 49596. By Jlir. Bosisto.-Does not Colman send ont a mustard with the words" Genuine mustard," when it is ~enuine, in siiver or gold letters ; I am not quite sure; I could not answer that with a11y Leonnrcl JonesJ 8th May 1883.
Page 1 and 2:
1401 47±25. How many pounds do the
Page 3 and 4:
1403 4748±. You say you received t
Page 5 and 6:
1405 475±9. Do yon mean to say it
Page 7 and 8:
1407 told me thttt they preferred l
Page 9 and 10:
1409 because the revenue would not
Page 11 and 12:
1411 47743. How was that divided be
Page 13 and 14:
l4:13 47824. Y on did not need to a
Page 15 and 16: 1415 Yarraville constructed and mai
Page 17 and 18: 1417 47927. You clo not call bungs
Page 19 and 20: 14Hl 47998. You cut litt.le corks o
Page 21 and 22: 1421 48060. Would the public get th
Page 23 and 24: 1423 48145 . .Are they aule to comp
Page 25 and 26: 1425 48210. How many hours do they
Page 27 and 28: 1427 48283. What prevented you from
Page 29 and 30: '1429 Frederick Kennon sworn and ex
Page 31 and 32: 1431 Gillman Goodrich Pearce sworn
Page 33 and 34: 1433 48483. Who uses condensed milk
Page 35 and 36: 1435 48563. The removal of the duty
Page 37 and 38: 1437 48631. How can you make ends t
Page 39 and 40: 1439 people in the country ?-I thin
Page 41 and 42: 1441 the ld. is taken off, the mine
Page 43 and 44: 1443 48793. Is it a success ?-It wa
Page 45 and 46: 1445 48854. No, all the evidence we
Page 47 and 48: c 1447 are sold at 10d., that would
Page 49 and 50: 1449 duty th11t is upon fhinnels-is
Page 51 and 52: 1451 49028. But also the value?-Yes
Page 53 and 54: 1453 49088. Have you any reason to
Page 55 and 56: 1455 when we commenced as nmnufactu
Page 57 and 58: 1457 49236. Has there been any fall
Page 59 and 60: 1459 49302. Have you tried Queensla
Page 61 and 62: 1461 49367. I understand that you s
Page 63 and 64: 1463 taken the place of mill-stones
Page 65: 1465 49494. Do you think you could
Page 69 and 70: 1469 49629. Where do you get your r
Page 71 and 72: 1471 49704. Approve of what ?-You t
Page 73 and 74: 1473 49786. Oats have not yet reach
Page 75 and 76: 1475 49854. Will you give us a case
Page 77 and 78: 1417 49922. What pTopoTtion does th
Page 79 and 80: 1479 49981. You think they should p
Page 81 and 82: 1481 John Rigby Non·is sworn and e
Page 83 and 84: 1483 50i 17. Are yon in the habit o
Page 85 and 86: 1485 50183. By JYir. Longmore.-Do y
Page 87 and 88: -14:8:7 50238. By 11£1·. Longmore
Page 89 and 90: 1489 .'i0314. Do you export to Sydn
Page 91 and 92: 1491 Henry Berry sworn and examinet
Page 93 and 94: ]493 50429. That being the case, an
Page 95 and 96: 1495 50498. In what way ?-Something
Page 97 and 98: 1497 50578. What woulL1 you do for
Page 99 and 100: 1499 The Cftairrnan.-Quitc right. 5
Page 101 and 102: 1501 50689. Are you opposed to the
Page 103 and 104: 1503 50755. Thn.t leaves you 836 ac
Page 105 and 106: 1505 50807. Is that what you want t
Page 107 and 108: 1507 50881. At the present price of
Page 109: 1509 {)0950. Where were you living
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Minutes of Evidence p.1401-1509 - Parliament of Victoria

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