Minutes of Evidence p.1401-1509 - Parliament of Victoria

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c, w. Derbam, contmued, 8th May 1883. Ronu.Jd Robb, lltb May 1883, 1474 49829. By Jlfr. Lobb.-Do I understand you to say that the Victorian climate is not suited to the growth of oats ?-Of course I am only repeating what I have heard. 1 have heard it, not from any one person in particular, but from several persons. ·19830. I say that we can grow as good oats as any country in the world ?-In some parts no doubt it eau be done. The witness withdrew. Ronald Robb sworn aud examined. 49831. By the Chairman.-What are you ?-A trader. 49832. And importer of grain ?-Not particularly; I am more particul::wly in trade, buying and selling ; occasionally I import. 49833. You are a dealer in grain?-Yes. 49834. Where is your place of business ?-Flinders-street. 49835. How long have you been in the business ?-About seventeen years in Melbourne ancl suburbs. 49836. You have hea-rd the evidence of the previous witness in relation to the duty upon the various grains-do you desire to add :1nything to tha.t evidence, or to contradict it in any way ?-There is nothing I can contradict so far. I perfectly agree with his evidence so far that the duties ought to be entirely removed from all grain and bags. · 49837. You used the words "so far ''-clo you go farther than he does ?-In reply to a question from the Hon. Mr. Lorimer, he said he would approve of the duty being reduced upon oats ; now I think that the duty upon all grain ought to be entirely removed in this country. 49838. He said so too; he said if we cannot take it off entirely, a reduction would be advantageous? -Yes, I agree with that. 49839. Have you anything to add to his evidence that he omitted to state ?-I have had a great deal of experience in the trade, and I know the working of it. I know that the duty upon oats is hampering the Melbourne trade entirely. :For instance, Queensland buyers go now to the Sydney market. Oats are sent direct from New Zealand now in large quantities to Sydney, instead of coming to Melbourne. The Queensland buyers go there and buy, because in sending oats from New Zealand to Sydney the consignor knows that he has not to pay the duties. If he cannot sell the oats for transhipment in Sydney, he can sell them in Syclney without having to pay duty. Therefore the consumer in Sydney gets oats at a much less price than the consmner in Melbourne does, and, >ts a representative of the consumer, I say it is taking it out of his pocket and putting it into the pocket of some one else. 49840. Now, not speaking as a representative of the consumers, but simply as a dealer, will you explain to the Commission what injury is done to Melbourne and :Melbourne dealers by this business being done in Sydney instead of Melbourne ?-We do not get the handling of it here; the ships are laid on direct to Sydnfly. and it does not come here. 49841. Are the ships Melbourne or Sydney ships ?-They may be either, it makes no difference; a ship will go wherever the trade is. 49842. But is the trade carried on in Sydney ships or Melbourne ships ?-The "Union Steamship Company has now gone to New Zealand; it will eventually leave Melbourne altogether, I think. 49843. Then it is a New Zealand company that carries it ?~It was a Melbourne firm, the firm of McMeckan, Blackwood, and Company; but on account of these duties and one thing and another, it has entirely taken it out of the hands of the Melbourne shipowners. 49844. The Melbourne port loses the duties ?-The Melbourne port loses the duties, and the Melbourne dealer loses the profits. 49845. And the Melboi1rne workman loses the wages of handling ?-Yes. I may state a fact that happened this week. A gentleman from Brisbane asked me the price of oats; I gave him a quotation for · oats in bond. He told me he could buy them cheaper in Sydney; therefore he saves the freight from here to Sydney, and buys a penny cheaper in Sydney than here; and I used to trade with him, but Sydney has cut me entirely out of the market. ' 49846. Have you anything to add ?-I think the duty upon bags is entirely unnecessary. 49847. There is the same duty upon bags in Sydney; that does not affect you as to the Sydney market; so if the duty upon bags were removed, it would give you a pull against Sydney, would it not, in that item ?-I do not see that it would make much difference. 49848. If it makes a difference against you when the cluty is on, it must make the same difference . in your favour if it is off ?~I think there ought to be a rebate or refund of the duty upon bags when exported with the grain. Upon the other goods there is a drawback ; why should there not be upon the bags when they are tilled? In that case it would benefit the farmers and every one. The only one who has to pay through the nose for it is the Victorian consumer; he pays clearer. 49849. Have you anything further to say ?-No. 498.50. By l'rb-. Lobb.-Are you in favour of a Custom-house ?-If it could be clone without, certainly uot. 49851. I understood you to say that all the protection of the farmers, the duty, should be taken off? -Yes, if bags and implements were free. 49852. Would you not go a little further and do away with the Custom-house altogether ?-If possible, I would. I may state that I deal a great deal with the farmers, and I think the general feeling amongst them is that, if the duties upon agricultural machinery and other things were removed, they would be quite satisfied to concede the question of grain. It is merely because they feel that they are handicapped so heavily with other duties. And there was another question with regard to South Australia, and the reason why South Australia can or did produce cheaper was because the agricultural machinery can be bol1ght at a mucille8s price than ours. It is not altogether a question of cost, for I think that labour in South Australia and hero is about equal, while the reason tl1at produce is a less price is that they can buy agricultural implements for a less price. 49853. By tile Cltairman.-In making that statement, are you speaking from your own knowledge, or just giving t\5 the experienc
1475 49854. Will you give us a case in point of the coBt of agricultural implements here making the cost of production so much larger ?-I have seen the difference in the duties, and the matter has been discussed so fully in the papers, and the amount of differsnce in the duties stated. 49855. I do not ask about newsp!tper discussion ; I ask you for a cuse in point. You say you speak from your own ei.perience in muking that statement. Cn.n you give the Commission a case in poiut in which machinery is so much enhanced in price by the dnties that it makes the cost of the grain grown, by the use of that machinery, so great that we cannot compete with other colonies ?-No, I cannot give a case; it is merely a matter of opinion as a trader. 49856. By M~·. Lohb.-There are many other things beside machinery that are enhanced? Everything all round; leave the farmer free, and he can grow as cheap as any one else. The witness withdre~o. 49857. 49858. 49859. 49860. 49861. give ?-Yes. removed. George Nipper sworn and examined. By the Chairman.-Are you of the :firm of Nipper and See ?-Yes. You are an importer of grain ?-Importer and exporter. How long have you been iu this business ?-Nineteen years. You have heard the evidence of the previous witnesses ?-Yes. Will you state as briefly as you can to the Commission the additional evidence you wish to I would propose that either the whole or the greater proportion of the duty upon maize be 49862. Then you agree with the evidence of Mr. Derham in relation to that ?-Yes. 49863. Is it the only item you wish to refer to ?-And also oats. 49864. You agree with all the others upon that and wheat also. 49865. Then I understand you to agree with the evidence given by the previous witnesses in relation to the removal of those duties?-Yes. 49866. Have you got anything additional to say that they left unsaid ?-No. 49867. By the Hon. Mr. Lorimer.-You are something more than an importer a.nd exporter of grain, are you not ?-Yes. 49868. What are you ?-I am a steamship owner, and I have other vessels; in fact I am what might be called a general merchant, I suppose. 49869. Do you suppose that your business as a steamboat proprietor has been diminished by this duty upon oats?-Yes, very much so. 49870. You .would be able to do a larger trade if it were taken off?-Yes, and a more profitable trade. I am not quite altogether selfish in the matter ; I have a considerable feeling for the cabmeu. Last year, maize being so clear, we could harilly import any maize at all, while we used to import 100,000 bags a year. 49871. Is it not a fact that the steamboat owners of Melbourne are very much hampered by these duties ?-Yes, very much so. It makes very little difference, I think, now to the farmers of Victoria in reference to importing wheat here. 49872. By the Chairman.-Have you been long engaged in the shipping business ?-We have eleven vessels. We commencecl buying vessels about seventeen years ago, and we increased from one np to eleven, and then we commenced to sell our vessels and went into steam. We have been into steam, I suppose, eight years, aml up to the present time we have eleven, small and large. I think we have only two :vessels left. 49873. Yoll saicl to the Hon. Mr. Lorimer that your business had diminished ?-The grain business. 49874. But he specially asked about your business as a steam-vessel proprietor, which you said had diminished ?-Then I mistook Mr. Lorimer as to my business dirninishing. 49875. Your business as a steam-vessel proprietor has increased ?-I bought steamers to work my business. · 49876. And yonr business in that line has gone on increasing ?-Yes, my business in that line has gone on increasing. 49877. Notwithstanding the duties ?-Notwithstanding the duties. 49878. So the duties clid not make your business decrease ?-No; but taking the duty off would increase my business very much more, and that is how I understood Mr. Lorimer to ask me. 49879. Now I understand the matter clearly, that your business absolutely has increased, notwithstanding the duties ?-I have seven or eight businesses altogether; this is not my principal place; Sydney is my head office ; this is only a bmnch of my business. I have another in V{ arrm,mbool, another at Belfast, and we have four in New South Wales. 49880. But I understand thn.t, notwithstanding the increase you have, you are under the impression that the abolition of the duties would increase it still more?-Yes; we have only one steamer running here, and it is a great dea.l through the increased duties all the other steamers run to New South Wales, and all our business seems to be going there. I am not paying expenses here, as far as my business is coneerned, and it is all through the hen.vy duties. I .used to import 100,000 bags of maize here, and now I clo. not import 10,000. 49881. By !Jfr. ~'VIclntyre.-That is your experience as a shipowner-that the shipping business is all being drawn away from Melbourne ?-Yes. The ~oit1wss ~oithdrew. Ronn.ld Rohb, continued, 8th May 1883. George Nipper, 8th May I 683.. J ames Lowry Irving sworn and examined. 49882. By the Cltaimwn.-Wbat are you ?-I am a gmin merchant. . 49883. Have you been long in business ?-Twenty-five years.' 49884. You hoxe heard theevideuce of previous witnesses in this business ?-Yes. 49885. Do you desire to controvert that evidence in any respect ?-Not altogether controvert it; but I have an idea that it is not protection we are hn.ving, it is prohibition at the present time. .r. L. Irvlng, 8tll May 1883,
Page 1 and 2:
1401 47±25. How many pounds do the
Page 3 and 4:
1403 4748±. You say you received t
Page 5 and 6:
1405 475±9. Do yon mean to say it
Page 7 and 8:
1407 told me thttt they preferred l
Page 9 and 10:
1409 because the revenue would not
Page 11 and 12:
1411 47743. How was that divided be
Page 13 and 14:
l4:13 47824. Y on did not need to a
Page 15 and 16:
1415 Yarraville constructed and mai
Page 17 and 18:
1417 47927. You clo not call bungs
Page 19 and 20:
14Hl 47998. You cut litt.le corks o
Page 21 and 22:
1421 48060. Would the public get th
Page 23 and 24: 1423 48145 . .Are they aule to comp
Page 25 and 26: 1425 48210. How many hours do they
Page 27 and 28: 1427 48283. What prevented you from
Page 29 and 30: '1429 Frederick Kennon sworn and ex
Page 31 and 32: 1431 Gillman Goodrich Pearce sworn
Page 33 and 34: 1433 48483. Who uses condensed milk
Page 35 and 36: 1435 48563. The removal of the duty
Page 37 and 38: 1437 48631. How can you make ends t
Page 39 and 40: 1439 people in the country ?-I thin
Page 41 and 42: 1441 the ld. is taken off, the mine
Page 43 and 44: 1443 48793. Is it a success ?-It wa
Page 45 and 46: 1445 48854. No, all the evidence we
Page 47 and 48: c 1447 are sold at 10d., that would
Page 49 and 50: 1449 duty th11t is upon fhinnels-is
Page 51 and 52: 1451 49028. But also the value?-Yes
Page 53 and 54: 1453 49088. Have you any reason to
Page 55 and 56: 1455 when we commenced as nmnufactu
Page 57 and 58: 1457 49236. Has there been any fall
Page 59 and 60: 1459 49302. Have you tried Queensla
Page 61 and 62: 1461 49367. I understand that you s
Page 63 and 64: 1463 taken the place of mill-stones
Page 65 and 66: 1465 49494. Do you think you could
Page 67 and 68: 1467 4·9558. Youwoufd not be dispo
Page 69 and 70: 1469 49629. Where do you get your r
Page 71 and 72: 1471 49704. Approve of what ?-You t
Page 73: 1473 49786. Oats have not yet reach
Page 77 and 78: 1417 49922. What pTopoTtion does th
Page 79 and 80: 1479 49981. You think they should p
Page 81 and 82: 1481 John Rigby Non·is sworn and e
Page 83 and 84: 1483 50i 17. Are yon in the habit o
Page 85 and 86: 1485 50183. By JYir. Longmore.-Do y
Page 87 and 88: -14:8:7 50238. By 11£1·. Longmore
Page 89 and 90: 1489 .'i0314. Do you export to Sydn
Page 91 and 92: 1491 Henry Berry sworn and examinet
Page 93 and 94: ]493 50429. That being the case, an
Page 95 and 96: 1495 50498. In what way ?-Something
Page 97 and 98: 1497 50578. What woulL1 you do for
Page 99 and 100: 1499 The Cftairrnan.-Quitc right. 5
Page 101 and 102: 1501 50689. Are you opposed to the
Page 103 and 104: 1503 50755. Thn.t leaves you 836 ac
Page 105 and 106: 1505 50807. Is that what you want t
Page 107 and 108: 1507 50881. At the present price of
Page 109: 1509 {)0950. Where were you living
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Minutes of Evidence p.1401-1509 - Parliament of Victoria

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