Appendix A_Pages266to338_9MB.pdf - Ottawa Confederation Line

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Speaker Comment/Question Responded By Response are supportive of public transit but people who get on that public transit system are the people who are driving in front of me. So a lot of the benefit to people who aren’t necessarily going exactly downtown is that a lot of their neighbours will be taking public transit and freeing up road space for them to use. So a 30% mode split for a city the size of Ottawa is a pretty good target and that will help everybody through the system.... I just don’t think it’s the most economical, I have worked, last of the signal station maintainers here in Ottawa and I ended up back in Montreal working with the signal station and with the station in the central corridor, the metro trains and the extended trains that were going from city to city like that and I really thought that our station again is in the wrong place to accommodate all facets of their achieved above ground system. $2.1B is a lot of money when you consider the GoTrain system and the whole system in Montreal. I can debate that one, well you can always say that they owned the land before using public corridors anyways David Hopper But you start looking at other city’s investment in urban transit, Go Transit and the City of Toronto right now are spending half the cost of this project just to fix one station. Union Station in Toronto is undergoing $700M worth of work by GoTransit and $650M of work by the City of Toronto and $165M to fix the subway station, that’s one station and that is to fix just one spot, when you start looking at the cost of all of this you could put a commuter rail network all through the Ottawa Valley but there isn’t the population to support it yet. In Toronto we had to have the subway operating first for 40 years before we put in a commuter rail network. The City has to walk before it can run and it has to solve the inner city problems and we actually really don’t want Ottawa to start mimicking some of the mistakes that we made in Toronto, which allows people to live 60km from the downtown core and have a cheap and easy way to get to work, that is not the future, the future is a denser multi-urban core centred on urban rail.. That’s your idea.... David Hopper No that’s in the City’s Official Plan... You told me that you were looking for David Hopper What is laid out... packages of land that would be aided through by a LRT system now, whether that’s with a dense environment station to station everything like that or whether its further away is really an environmental understanding of what that urban area wants.... You know that a rapid transit system that’s further away, say in Kemptville, and you promise them some quick access to level crossings right up to the Archives Building in half an hour it’s going to work, they will develop out there, and that development out there maybe a total habitation But that’s not in keeping with the Official Plan of the city. The Official Plan of the city is to intensify development in places like Tunney’s Pasture, LeBreton, around Hurdman, around St. Laurent, around urban nodes and that’s the whole basis of the plan and that is how we got here..... Speaker Comment/Question Responded By Response development but it... That’s why we’re here and that is why we are looking at an urban area, Ottawa- Gatineau points in east to west are the urban area. If you go to St. Paul or Minneapolis both sides of St. Louis, they operate as a core and they are in different states and in different names, but it is not happening here. Vivi Chi Clearly you disagree with what we have in our Official Plan and the TMP. I would just like a point of information which is kind of connected to what the previous speaker was saying, I understand that there is an interprovincial transportations study underway now, and I guess what my question is what point does that hook into what you are talking about here, because as has been pointed out we have a city to the north of Ottawa which is large and Gatineau is growing rapidly, I think even more rapidly than Ottawa and this proposal doesn’t take any STO buses across the street is it? Yes, but whatever it is, would be an adjunct to this. Regarding the tunnel itself in downtown, I’ve been told, but can’t confirm that there used to be a tunnel across the downtown by the sawmills before the canal was made that was basically locked off. Do you know anything about that tunnel? I was told you guys would go ask the railroad engineers about it because it wouldn’t be in the archives, it would be older than the archives. Vivi Chi David Hopper David Hopper For this project we have not precluded options for what the interprovincial study may come up with as a solution. That study is looking at near term improvements as well as long term. Long term would mean a facility of some sort, they are looking at various options and including a loop, where do buses transfer people on and off the system. That project I believe they are hoping to go to the public with an open house and those options in the new year. We’ve been talking to them and looking at things like the design at Bayview which has been modified to accommodate either buses or trains coming across the Prince of Wales bridge and tying into that station. So we have looked at some of the options that do involve interconnection and how they would work. But yes, in the short term this service will take OC Transpo buses off the street but will not have the same impact on STO buses. Haven’t heard about that tunnel, but we’ll go back and have a see what we can dig from the archives. Okay well we will check into that. There are a number of deep sewers and deep tunnels that we know about, but I haven’t heard of that one yet. If I’m not mistaken it ran from basically David Hopper Okay, well we will try and check into that.
Speaker Comment/Question Responded By Response the old Court House, the old jail, hostile, to straight across Queen Street. That might help, that might even cut your cost down a bit, don’t know how deep, but it’s been sealed for a hundred, hundred and fifty years. Rod Mclean I am kind of concerned about how we are going to compensate for the fact that we are now working at 10-12 stories down. Which brings to mind 2 things, how do we evacuate people from, you said, elevators at both ends? What kind of capacity are these going to have? It’s a long way up if you are walking, if electricity fails, it’s the only way you are going to get there. Is there a possibility also, of an additional station down to minimize the number of people who may need to get up? That takes care of smoke, what about electrical failure? So you are anticipating that you would be able to operate the escalators and elevators even in that circumstance? David Hopper David Hopper David Hopper David Hopper Okay, I don’t want to be the first one to walk in there, but I will follow along after they have aired it out. Great thank you. Well there is a code out there called NFPA 130, which is the National Fire Prevention Association code. It deals with underground mass transit stations and it says that you have to get everyone in the station to a point of refuge within 4 minutes. So what we are looking at is each end of the station over the 4 tunnel entries, we would have vent shafts with fans so they would have emergency generators and emergency power, so the system will know where the train is that has the problem and will be able to start the sequence of fans in order to push air in where the people are and suck smoke out where the people aren’t. What we are looking at doing is when that happens, you would open the doors at street level and draw air down the stairs and escalators so that people who have gotten to the concourse level, about 6m above platform and have gotten off to the side will be in a zone of refuge and they don’t need to get out of the building in 4 minutes, they need to get out of the building as they are able to. So we are looking at, sort of like a safe zone inside the station below ground. So that has all been worked out, and will be worked out in more detail as we move through. But there are very rigorous codes that apply in terms of making sure we can safely evacuate these stations. If there is electrical failure we will be looking at redundancies because we are spanning all the way across the city and tying into the grid at different points unless we are talking about the whole of Ottawa being blacked out, which happens once every 40 years. We would be looking at local zones where we would have to run slower and be able to feed power in from other parts of the system. We would be looking at making sure we had lighting and PA and emergency elevators on emergency backup power and putting generator power so that we could turn the system off as we have to. Probably not escalators, but we would be able to operate the elevator. We need to look at what is the power load to run all of this and what we can actually create in standby power and Speaker Comment/Question Responded By Response make that work, but generally escalators are not on emergency power, but we would have to look and see how we would handle the situation, and we may need to in this case. David Jeannes So obviously Tunney’s Pasture isn’t going to be the west end terminus of this system for long, hopefully, because a lot of people are coming into the west end, southwest and so on. What is the update on when the route will be decided on, the rail system further west and is that possibly going to tie into the system before the work is done, or is it going to be longer than that? It’s about expansion, and there was a question already about expansion potentially across to Gatineau. There are a number of other points at which you have previously looked at expansion. One possibility that was talked about before was potentially designing the Hurdman Station so that it might eventually connect south to the southeast transitway and then also in that case perhaps into the Hospital Complex. That doesn’t appear to be possible with your new design. Similarly you were talking about in the future we are looking at tripling in actual ridership which would probably also mean a tripling of people coming in on those buses from the west to Tunney’s and from the east to Blair. Although there are plans to extend west and east it seems that the way those buses are going to increase in numbers and importance were actually building in even greater possibilities for those future extensions. The difficulties we have right now and I am just wondering, for example that, we are talking about partially filling in the trench for a nice bus ramp down to go west to Tunney’s and that nice bus ramp that will be handling 3 times as many buses at some point in the future would Vivi Chi David Hopper The study will be done before this project is finished in terms of construction. We call that the Western LRT Corridor Study and we are in the process now of selecting a consulting firm to work with us, we are going through the qualifications stage right now and we will go through the detailed proposal. We hope to get that study underway no later than the start of next year. It could be in December. We could, but maybe I’m too close to it, the drawings I do sort of see some of that. You are right, at Tunney’s we would likely be filling in part of the trench only to reduce the grade up, but that would be reversible so we are going to extend west of Tunney’s, you would take that out again. The volume of buses that we are predicting in that station decides it is the 2031 where we have tripled the ridership on the system so we are not looking at tripling the number planned for, we are looking at providing service out to 2031 with triple the transit ridership without expanding the network any further and it still works. Yes, there would be more difficulty the longer it takes to build these things the more difficulty there is in the transition. At Bayview station we have the ability to swing around to go to the south which would be likely the logical way to find some route to somehow get onto the Carling corridor, so we have that prebuilt into the system. At Blair station the lower level...and a potential of a matching curb to the north, we could go both ways into that.
Page 1 and 2: ©2009 Microsoft Corporation ©2009
Page 3 and 4: ©2009 Microsoft Corporation Future
Page 5 and 6: TRANSPORTATION INFORMATION TE WATER
Page 7 and 8: Downtown Ottawa Transit Tunnel: Tun
Page 9 and 10: LeBreton Station Overview • Trans
Page 11 and 12: Downtown East Station Overview •
Page 14 and 15: Campus • Station Overview • Loc
Page 16 and 17: Train Station Overview • Provides
Page 18 and 19: Cyrville Station Overview • Will
Page 20 and 21: Maintenance and Storage Facility
Page 22 and 23: Transitway Conversion • Conversio
Page 24 and 25: Bus Operations - East Technology Se
Page 26 and 27: Next Steps • Report to Transit Co
Page 28 and 29: La somme de 15 millions par chaque
Page 30 and 31: Station Rideau Campus Comments I d
Page 32 and 33: Station Comments Good plan for maxi
Page 34 and 35: You said it was a study not a proje
Page 36 and 37: le commerce au détail. Maintenue l
Page 38 and 39: Downtown Ottawa Transit Tunnel Tunn
Page 40 and 41: Speaker Comment/Question Responded
Page 44: Speaker Comment/Question Responded
Page 47 and 48: File Number: D06-01-07-DOTT 26 Augu
Page 49 and 50: Memorandum To: File Date: August 27
Page 52: POST−NOTICE OF COMMENCEMENT CONSU
Page 55 and 56: DowntownOttawaTransitTunnel(DOTT):
Page 58 and 59: CONSULTATION GROUP MEETING #6 - Age
Page 60 and 61: Downtown Ottawa Transit Tunnel: Tun
Page 62 and 63: Federal EA Requirements • A feder
Page 64 and 65: Thank You!
Page 66 and 67: DOWNTOWN OTTAWA TRANSIT TUNNEL TO30

Appendix A_Pages266to338_9MB.pdf - Ottawa Confederation Line

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