<strong>Road</strong> <strong>to</strong> <strong>Emmaus</strong> Vol. 2, <strong>No</strong>. 3 (#6)Orthodoxy in IndonesiaThomas: So local parishes will be able <strong>to</strong> celebrate in their own language?Fr. Daniel: Yes. And if there is a need, they can always celebrate in Indonesian.Thomas: A more personal question for you. What are the greatest temptationsin your work?Fr. Daniel: (Laughs) To leave it because it is <strong>to</strong>o difficult. I know that I have mytalent, and that I can always teach. Sometimes I just want <strong>to</strong> go be a professorat the university. Again and again, God has helped me <strong>to</strong> stay where I am, <strong>to</strong>remember my calling. It is difficult because I have a lot of responsibility <strong>to</strong> payfor this or that, <strong>to</strong> help young people begin theological study at the university.I must pay for these things every month. I think I have more responsibilitiesthan people who have their own children!Thomas: What is your greatest sorrow?Fr. Daniel: My greatest sorrow . . .when I’m trying <strong>to</strong> do my best, and I amaccused of things that I did not do.Thomas: And your greatest joy?Fr. Daniel: The greatest joy is when someone is converted <strong>to</strong> Orthodoxy.Thomas: Who are the saints who have helped you, the ones you feel closest<strong>to</strong>?Fr. Daniel: My own patron saint, St. Daniel the Prophet. I chose that namebecause I believe that he had such a strong heart. He had courage against theking and the lions; and I am living among the lions, let me tell you. I want<strong>to</strong> have his courage.Thomas: Being a Semitic-oriented people and having less exposure <strong>to</strong> thesaints of traditional Orthodox lands, would you say that Indonesian Orthodoxare more drawn <strong>to</strong> the Old Testament saints?Fr. Daniel: Prophet Daniel was my choice, not for Indonesians in general. Iencourage people <strong>to</strong> be close <strong>to</strong> their own particular saints. For the time being,the spiritual orientation of the Indonesian people is not so much in the directionof the saints as it is <strong>to</strong> the Holy Scripture itself. This is still the foundation.Thomas: The traditional orientation reflects a more Islamic pattern with aChristian substance?Fr. Daniel: Yes. I’m speaking here not of the belief but of the pattern. Onehas <strong>to</strong> introduce things slowly. There is less emphasis on the saints, althoughthe Orthodox, of course, believe in them and they have their names. In ourcultural traditions we also have an understanding of sacred places, especiallygraveyards, the burial place of local saintly figures. This is not strange <strong>to</strong> us, itis not new <strong>to</strong> our culture. But I’m afraid that new converts look at the saintsin their old way of understanding – the dead people in their past, the worshipof ances<strong>to</strong>rs. This is a concern here, as it is in a lot of native cultures. So, I try<strong>to</strong> emphasize more the understanding of Scripture in the light of Orthodoxbelief.Thomas: As someone who has traveled extensively and seen Orthodoxy inmany places, do you have a word for people in the West? What can we do <strong>to</strong>deepen our faith?Fr. Daniel: As Westerners, <strong>to</strong> deepen your faith you must go back and explorethe original Western culture that was sanctified by Orthodoxy, the Christiansociety that was oriented <strong>to</strong>wards God. These are your roots. From there, try<strong>to</strong> sanctify the culture you are in. Don’t let yourselves be eroded by contemporaryWestern culture, which is very shallow. Also, try <strong>to</strong> be true <strong>to</strong> the Faithas such, don’t try <strong>to</strong> “revise” it according <strong>to</strong> the mode of the time. If you donot keep the Faith as it is, you will be undone by your surroundings. Try <strong>to</strong>interpret your life within the context of your faith. When people do not haveculture, they do not have a root – when they do not have a root, they areshallow. If Orthodoxy is only unders<strong>to</strong>od superficially, outside of the contex<strong>to</strong>f its his<strong>to</strong>rical rootedness, then we also become shallow – it is just a fad, likeany “new” religion. We have <strong>to</strong> be able <strong>to</strong> identify ourselves with the wholeflow of his<strong>to</strong>ry within the Church. I think that it is very important <strong>to</strong> acquireour identity within the Church.Thomas: So that means going “against the flow” because Western cultures arefor the most part losing their Christian world-view.Fr. Daniel: Of course. It is difficult, but the Lord went against the flow, didn’tHe? Yes, He did.Thomas: In our age of electronic communication, how can Orthodoxy adapt<strong>to</strong> a technological society and yet not partake of its aimlessness?Fr. Daniel: Use the means available as a vehicle. Use the Internet as much aspossible for preaching Orthodoxy, use television as much as possible <strong>to</strong> reachpeople. This is better than just letting the Hindu gurus or whoever take it over.Why shouldn’t we make use of it? We waste a lot of opportunity if we don’t.Thomas: Do you think there is a boundary, past which Orthodoxy shouldn’tintegrate with the media?
<strong>Road</strong> <strong>to</strong> <strong>Emmaus</strong> Vol. 2, <strong>No</strong>. 3 (#6)Orthodoxy in IndonesiaFr. Daniel: Yes, when we interpret our lives in terms of that media. But whenwe use this <strong>to</strong>ol and fill it with a new meaning, the Orthodox Christian worldview,then it becomes an instrument for Orthodoxy.Thomas: One more question about intercultural relationships. Many of usknow little more about Asian spirituality than the contemporary popularpresentation of “Eastern religions” that has <strong>to</strong>rn many Westerners from theirroots, and substituted a blend of pseudo-mysticism and esoteric dead ends.What of real spiritual value can the West learn from the East?Fr. Daniel: A lot. A major lesson is the steadfastness of the Eastern peoplein their religiosity. The Eastern people are very religious in many ways, andit is very strange for Indonesians <strong>to</strong> hear from Western people that they don’tbelieve in God. It is very strange for us, because for us Asian people, God isso obvious. How can anyone not believe in Him? The grandeur of natureand everything right before you? How is it possible?! So, if you deny Him,you are left with only your own small mind, and you are very limited. But,that you cannot see the Hand of the Maker behind the grandeur of nature!It is difficult for me especially <strong>to</strong> understand this Western way of thinking. Iunderstand much through reading and my travels, but still, it is strange thatpeople cannot believe in God. I think this is not only a matter of mind, buta matter Fr. Daniel of heart. baptising The new heart converts becomes callous.For Eastern people, the reference is immediately <strong>to</strong> God. Either <strong>to</strong> God or <strong>to</strong>gods, but still, the reference point is spiritual.Thomas: Is there anything else that you would like <strong>to</strong> say, any message <strong>to</strong> thepeople reading this interview?Fr. Daniel: I want <strong>to</strong> encourage Orthodox people all over the world <strong>to</strong> feelthe unity of Orthodoxy. It is evil that Orthodoxy is so divided along the lineof cultures and ethnicity. I want <strong>to</strong> see the Orthodox feel a oneness: when theOrthodox people in Greece, or Russia, or Indonesia, hearing of the sufferingof others, can feel and say, “This my brother.” <strong>No</strong>ne of this, “You are Greekand I am Russian,” or, “I’m sorry, I’m Indonesian.” What kind of Orthodoxy isthis? It’s not catholic, not universal. The compartmentalization of Orthodoxyis not Orthodoxy.Thomas: This division is even more visible as our world comes closer <strong>to</strong>gether.Fr. Daniel: Yes. The second thing I would like <strong>to</strong> say is that I want Orthodoxpeople <strong>to</strong> be enthusiastic about their faith. To preach the Gospel – <strong>to</strong> preach itand not just keep it close and say, “This is mine, my culture.” Also, when youpreach Orthodoxy, don’t preach your particular expression of Orthodoxy – thatsomeone has <strong>to</strong> be Greek or Russian. Orthodoxy is not Greek or Russian; it isuniversal and for everyone. If you become Orthodox, do not associate yourselfprimarily with being Greek or Russian – associate yourself with the Church.This is the way it has <strong>to</strong> be. When I converted <strong>to</strong> Orthodoxy in Korea, I didnot associate Orthodoxy with any particular culture, I associated Orthodoxywith the whole his<strong>to</strong>ry of the Church. Orthodoxy has the responsibility <strong>to</strong>come out of its own cocoon, <strong>to</strong> tell the world, “Here we are!”Thomas: Don’t you think that our own time is especially good for this becausewe are being forced <strong>to</strong>gether in<strong>to</strong> a so-called “global village?”Fr. Daniel: I think so, yes. But then again, I believe that among all the Orthodoxethnic groups, there have always been people who have unders<strong>to</strong>odthis, and these people now have <strong>to</strong> take the lead in bringing Orthodox people<strong>to</strong>gether across ethnic and cultural lines. If not, the new Orthodox Churchesin Asia and in Africa will be very troubled. Speaking as an Asian, we don’t wanta new kind of colonialism. I want <strong>to</strong> warn the people from Western countrieswho are Orthodox and who want <strong>to</strong> do missionary work in Asia or in Africa– do not try <strong>to</strong> impose your own brand of spiritual colonialism. We havehad a long his<strong>to</strong>ry of colonialism and we will resist it. If traditional culture issuppressed and if there is a lack of recognition of local leadership, the nativeChristians will eventually revolt. This is no longer the time of “You are lower
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