the as<strong>to</strong>nishing missionary journeys of the apostle andrewSea. You can imagine, these were all important routes and a simple, unostentatiousman like St. Andrew could take any of them easily.<strong>RTE</strong>: Were the ancient and classical maps more accurate than later medievalmaps in the West?GEORGE: Yes, later Christians would say, “Paradise was here, the earth wasflat, etc.,” but if you look at the old Greek maps, they not only knew the earthwas round, but the longitudes and latitudes are the same on their maps aswe know them <strong>to</strong>day. They are not exactly the same because we count oursfrom Greenwich and they didn’t, but you can correlate them precisely. Youcan even find America and Australia on some maps (i.e. the map of Cratesthe Maleot in 150 B.C.). This is why I believe we can accurately locate theseplaces from the old traditions. When barbaric peoples invaded the olderChristian civilizations and became Christian themselves, this was right spiritually,but it was a catastrophe for civilization. Night fell on education andlearning, although spiritually and culturally it was a dawn for the barbarians.It was their time, for the first time in his<strong>to</strong>ry.<strong>RTE</strong>: Although there were dangers from bandits and smugglers, there probablyweren’t the kind of border controls we have now.GEORGE: Yes, but even now there are dangers. Going <strong>to</strong> Siberia isn’t anysafer now than it was 2,000 years ago, but there was often another attitude<strong>to</strong>wards travelers then. Although there were always dangers, in manyancient cultures a traveler was sacred, he was from far away and people didn’twant <strong>to</strong> despoil him; they wanted <strong>to</strong> hear about his country and his civilization.You didn’t need visas, documents, you were not even in need offriends because you were a special person, a traveler. You were coming withfar-off ideas, different beliefs, strange dress. You were more often a person<strong>to</strong> admire than someone <strong>to</strong> fight or <strong>to</strong> steal from. In the ancient world passingtravelers were laden with gifts – this was Marco Polo’s experience. Thosewere different times. With my own decades of traveling <strong>to</strong> difficult and exoticplaces, it is easy for me <strong>to</strong> understand how St. Andrew could have traveledas extensively as the traditions recount.<strong>RTE</strong>: When we first spoke about your research you made the remark thatwhen the Lord <strong>to</strong>ld the apostles <strong>to</strong> preach the gospel <strong>to</strong> the ends of the earth,they did not think this meant their descendants. They <strong>to</strong>ok this literally.Mosaic of St. Andrew from St. Catherine’s Monastery, Sinai.7
<strong>Road</strong> <strong>to</strong> <strong>Emmaus</strong> Vol. V, <strong>No</strong>. 4 (#19)the as<strong>to</strong>nishing missionary journeys of the apostle andrewGEORGE: Yes, we have many written traditions from the second and third centuriesA.D. that the apostles went <strong>to</strong> Middle Asia, <strong>to</strong> sub-Saharan Africa, <strong>to</strong>India, even <strong>to</strong> old Burma. They went <strong>to</strong> the land of Sogdiana, which is modernUzbekistan/western China… we had all these memories and traditions ofthe first years of Christianity, but we thought they were just strange tales.<strong>No</strong>w, with the help of archeology, we understand that these roads did exist,and that many, many people <strong>to</strong>ok them. We know, for example, that theIndonesians were traveling from Java <strong>to</strong> Tanzania across the Indian ocean.They had large, well-balanced outrigger canoes, and they would load themwith their families, lives<strong>to</strong>ck, food and water, and set out from Java – sometimestraveling for a lifetime. This is how they discovered Madagascar. Theysailed the open oceans without any fear. The Celts also were extensive travelersin the <strong>No</strong>rth Atlantic with their leather-covered boats, the curraghs.Another example of widespread travel is that in 330 B.C., Pithias knewnorthern Europe well. He had been <strong>to</strong> Cornwall, <strong>to</strong> Scotland, <strong>to</strong> Thule (somesay that ancient Thule was Iceland, others Greenland, others <strong>No</strong>rthernScandinavia) and from there he traveled <strong>to</strong> Marseilles in forty-five days.<strong>RTE</strong>: In forty-five days!GEORGE: Yes. And in Claudius P<strong>to</strong>lemy’s (100-170 A.D.) geography we haveDiogenes – a second Diogenes, not the philosopher – who, during the apos<strong>to</strong>lictimes, left by ship from Alexandria and went <strong>to</strong> Azania, present-dayTanzania, <strong>to</strong> a place called Rapta. From Tanzania he walked for twenty-fivedays <strong>to</strong> the mountains of Ruvenzori between Lake Albert and Lake Edwardin what is now Rwanda, Uganda, Congo-Zaire. You see, it was a small worldat that time, and the Greeks already knew the source of the Nile.So, when the Lord <strong>to</strong>ld the apostles <strong>to</strong> go <strong>to</strong> the ends of the earth, theGreco-Roman knowledge of the world at that time was quite specific. Theyknew where the ends of the earth were. For the ancient Greeks and Romans,the world ended in an abyss, the “Antipodes,” after the Prasum Promen<strong>to</strong>ryin Zimbabwe. However, the ancient Israelites, the Himyarite Arabs,Phoenicians, and Nabbataean Arabs knew that this was not the final abyss,but the dzimba dza mabwe, possibly the mines of King Solomon, or theBantu Empire of Monomotapa (Mwene Muntapa).My point is that, geographically, P<strong>to</strong>lmey gave us all the known placesand no one can say that this is rubbish. China, Indonesia, Lapland, Britain,Scandinavia were all known. It was not easy <strong>to</strong> go <strong>to</strong> the ends of the earth,8but it was possible. In his epistles, St. Paul speaks of being obliged <strong>to</strong> spreadthe gospel or he will be lost. In Greek, these words, “<strong>to</strong> the ends of the earth”are very precise, they are in no sense allegorical and the apostles would haveunders<strong>to</strong>od this literally. The ancient geographers used this phrase as a precisegeographical definition.That the apostles accomplished this <strong>to</strong> some degree is borne out by theChurch his<strong>to</strong>rian Tertullian, who wrote in 170 A.D.: “We have deacons, wehave priests and we have churches, <strong>to</strong> the ends of the earth.” 1 Then hedescribes the places: the Sarmatians, Sub-Saharan Africa, the British Isles,and the Scythians. The terri<strong>to</strong>ry of the Sarmatians, for instance, stretchedfrom the Caspian Sea <strong>to</strong> Lake Baikal; and from Mongolia <strong>to</strong> Siberia.THE CROSS OF THE NORTH<strong>RTE</strong>: How did you begin <strong>to</strong> write about St. Andrew in particular?GEORGE: If you had <strong>to</strong>ld me a year ago that I would be writing a book on St.Andrew, I would have said you were crazy. I never imagined that I would dosuch a thing. But when I had some serious problems, I went <strong>to</strong> New ValaamoMonastery in Finland where I was given the extremely kind hospitality ofthe monks and Igumen Sergei. It was like entering the doors of paradise.You can imagine; it was cold, quiet, silent, and the only things I had <strong>to</strong> facewere God, nature, and myself.At the time I wanted <strong>to</strong> write a book about the Kalash, the descendants ofAlexander the Great on the northwest border of Pakistan, who are stillpagan. Their religion is still very connected with ancient Greek paganism,and I feel an urgency <strong>to</strong> preserve their mythology and legends because thisis an endangered culture and there are only two thousand of them left.I had planned <strong>to</strong> begin this work in Finland, but I unders<strong>to</strong>od that themonastery was not exactly a proper place <strong>to</strong> write about pagans… so insteadI began writing about the Karelian Orthodox saints. I was impressed thatmany Greek monks from Mt. Athos had gone <strong>to</strong> Karelia and that Karelianmonks had gone <strong>to</strong> Mt. Athos and later returned <strong>to</strong> the Russian north – likeSt. Arseny of Konevits. One of our Greeks who went <strong>to</strong> Karelia was MonkEliezar, and we have had a continual stream of Greek monks, hermits and1Tertullian, An Answer <strong>to</strong> the Jews, Chapter. 7, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 3, p. 157-8. T&T Clark, translatedby S. Thelwall.9
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