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evropis adamianis uflebaTa<br />
sasamarTlos mier „rusTavi 2-is”<br />
saqmeze gamotanil gadawyvetilebaze<br />
da am gadawyvetilebiT Seqmnil<br />
viTarebaze „qronika+~ es-<br />
aubreba giorgi mSvenieraZes:<br />
_ giorgi, rogor SeafasebdiT<br />
im gadawyvetilebas, romelic ad-<br />
amianis uflebaTa evropulma<br />
sasamarTlom „rusTavi2"-is saqmeze<br />
gamoitana (rasac sazogadoe-<br />
baSi Soki moyva) da arxis elvis<br />
siswrafiT gadaformebas axali<br />
mepatronisTvis?<br />
_ es gadawyvetileba ukve mocemulobaa<br />
da am mocemulobiT unda<br />
gavagrZeloT fiqri da moqmedeba.<br />
imitom, rom didma palatam raRac<br />
nawilSi romc gadasinjos es gadawyvetileba,<br />
arsebul mocemulobas,<br />
arsebiTad, mainc veRar Secvlis.<br />
_ diax, didma palatam romc<br />
gamoitanos sxva gadawyvetileba,<br />
es yvelaferi yaramanaSvilebisT-<br />
vis kompensaciis gadaxdiT damT-<br />
avrdeba da ara arxis dabrunebiT.<br />
_ eg Zalian sakamaTo da bundovania,<br />
ra moxdeba mag SemTxvevaSic<br />
ki, Tu didma palatam sxva gadawyvetileba<br />
gamoitana. metic, 18 ivliss<br />
rom sxva gadawyvetileba<br />
gamocxadebuliyo da „rusTavi2"-s<br />
moego saqme, maSinac ki bundovani<br />
iyo, rogor ganviTardeboda movlenebi.<br />
gaurkvevloba iyo da es gaurkvevloba,<br />
sxvaTa Sioris, nawarmoebia<br />
samarTalSi arsebuli bundovanebebiT<br />
da praqtikis ararsebobiT<br />
_ rogor viqceviT amgvar<br />
SemTxvevaSi. amdenad, statuskvo<br />
iyo yvelaze kargi mdgomareoba,<br />
romelic bundovani iyo, gaurkvevelic<br />
ki gaxldaT momavali, magram<br />
mocemulobas inarCunebda,<br />
sadac „rusTavi2-dan” ismoda kritikuli<br />
xma, xma, romelic ar moswonda<br />
xelisuflebas.<br />
_ strasburgis am gadawyvet-<br />
ilebam sazogadoebaSi garkveuli<br />
imedgacrueba gamoiwvia. es gadawyvetileba<br />
ormagadaa damaziane-<br />
beli Cveni qveynisTvis: erTi, rom<br />
am gadawyvetilebis wyalobiT aRar<br />
gveqneba prodasavluri, anti-<br />
rusuli arxi, saidanac ismoda ga-<br />
nsxvavebuli azri, da meore mxriv,<br />
rom es gadawyvetileba gamoitana<br />
evrostruqturam, gamoiwvia anti-<br />
evropuli ganwyoba, rac, isev da<br />
isev, ruseTs awyobs.<br />
_ cxadia, dasaSvebia yvelafrisa<br />
da yvelas kritika, swored amitom<br />
mogvwons Cven dasavluri Rirebulebebi,<br />
rom amis uflebas gvani-<br />
Webs, magram aq gasaTvaliswinebelia<br />
erTi garemoeba: ruseTi evropis<br />
mimarT nihilizms, evroskepticizms<br />
swored evropuli instituciebis<br />
diskreditaciiT cdilobs<br />
da axla, rodesac Cven gviwevs<br />
am evropuli instituciis kritika,<br />
swored am konteqstidan gamomdinare<br />
unda gvesmodes, rom es<br />
Cvengan gacilebiT met dasabuTebulobas<br />
moiTxovs, rom Cveni kritika<br />
ruseTis wisqvilze ar asxamdes<br />
wyals. vgulisxmob imgvari tipis<br />
gancxadebebs, rodesac gada-<br />
WriT saubroben, rom strasburgze<br />
xeli miuwvdeba putins, rom mosamarTleebi<br />
moisyides da a. S. amgvari<br />
narativi, cxadia, skepticizms<br />
aRvivebs evropis, evropuli struqturebis<br />
mimarT. adamiani elementarulad<br />
fiqrobs, Tu iqac miuwvdeba<br />
xeli putins, Tanac ise, rom<br />
instituciebis mosyidvac SeuZlia,<br />
maSin raRa gvinda iq, ra azri aqvs,<br />
putini iqac dagvazianebs. Tan, gasaTvaliswinebelia<br />
is, rom amgvari<br />
gancxadebebi amomrCevlis ruseTis<br />
mimarT loialurad ganwyobil nawilSi<br />
ki ara, swored prodasavlurad<br />
ganwyobil amomrCevelSi iwvevs<br />
gulacruebas. xSirad bevr maTgans<br />
evropuli Rirebulebebi ki ar<br />
10<br />
rezo SatakiSvili<br />
597 94 42 50<br />
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com<br />
aqvs gacnobierebuli da amitom ki<br />
araa prodasavlurad ganwyobili,<br />
aramed imitom, rom is dasavleTSi<br />
xedavs usafrTxo momavals, dasavleTi<br />
masSi qmnis usafrTxoebis gancdas.<br />
cxadia, rodesac adamians<br />
aseTi gancda aqvs, masSi imedgacruebas<br />
iwvevs rogorc es gadawyvetileba,<br />
ise am gadawyvetilebis<br />
gamo sasamarTlos kritika. miT<br />
ufro, Tu es kritika iseT eWvebs<br />
efuZneba, romelzec vsaubrobdiT,<br />
cxadia, iseT ganwyobebs gaaRvivebs,<br />
romelic sabolood isev ruseTis<br />
wisqvilze daasxams wyals.<br />
_ mokled, am ganwyobebs aRvi-<br />
vebs TviTon gadawyvetilebac da<br />
am gadawyvetilebis kritikac.<br />
gadawyvetilebas Cven ver Sevcv-<br />
liT da rac SegviZlia isaa, rom<br />
Tavi SevikavoT gadawyvetilebis<br />
kritikisgan?<br />
_ ara, me magas ar vgulisxmob,<br />
gadawyvetilebis kritika aranair<br />
antidasavlur ganwyobebs ar aCens,<br />
antidasavlur ganwyobebs aCens am<br />
gadawyvetilebis mimRebi institutis<br />
dadanaSauleba putinTan garigebaSi!<br />
esaa problema. politikosebs,<br />
rodesac aseT gancxadebas<br />
akeTeben, minimum, raRac mtkicebuleba<br />
unda hqondeT da ase<br />
haerze ar laparakobdnen.<br />
_ putinis ruseTs rom xeli mi-<br />
uwvdeba evropul istebliSmentze,<br />
es ra, axalia? avstriis yofilma<br />
kanclerma ruseTis rkinigzaSi<br />
daiwyo muSaoba, sul axlaxan<br />
vnaxeT, ra gadawyvetileba mi-<br />
iRo igive evrosabWos asambleam<br />
ruseTTan dakavSirebiT. anu mT-<br />
lad yuriT moTreulic araa, rom<br />
ruseTs evropul institutebSi,<br />
tebSi,<br />
saxelmwifo struqturebSi gavlena<br />
aqvs da xSirad maRali Tanam-<br />
debobis pirebic hyavs nayidi.<br />
_ gasagebia, magram rodesac vsaubrobT<br />
konkretul mosamarTleebze<br />
da konkretul gadawyvetilebaze<br />
da rodesac maTze aseT Tamam<br />
gancxadebebs vakeTebT, me visurvebdi<br />
ufro met mtkicebulebas.<br />
_ mainc, ra tipis mtkicebule-<br />
ba unda iyos? maTi mosyidvis<br />
faruli Canaweri? erT-erTi mosamarTle,<br />
romelmac es gadaw-<br />
yvetileba gamoitana, aRmoCnda,<br />
rom Cveni universitetis sapatio<br />
doqtoric ki yofila, magram gam-<br />
oirCeva antiqarTuli pozicie-<br />
biT, saqarTvelos ganixilavs okupantad,<br />
rom Turme Cven dagvipy-<br />
giorgi mSvenieraZe:<br />
`mesakuTris<br />
cvlileba<br />
aucileblad<br />
moaxdens<br />
gavlenas<br />
saredaqcio<br />
politikaze. Cven<br />
aseTi ram<br />
gamogvivlia,<br />
pirveli ar aris~<br />
ria afxazeTi da a. S. swored im<br />
narativiT azrovnebs, ra nara-<br />
tivsac nergavs putini. cxadia, es<br />
pirdapiri mtkicebuleba araa misi<br />
putinTan kavSiris, magram eWvis<br />
safuZvelsac ar iZleva?<br />
_ gadawyvetileba mxolod mag<br />
mosamarTles ar miuRia, garda amisa,<br />
rodesac adamiani saqarTvelosTan<br />
dakavSirebiT raRacas arasworad<br />
fiqrobs, Zneli saTqmelia,<br />
es avtomaturad niSnavs Tu ara<br />
imas, rom is gadawyvetilebebsac<br />
arasworad wers. Tuki mtkicebulebebi<br />
ar arsebobs, me politikosebis<br />
adgilze mozomili viqnebodi<br />
gancxadebebSi, ara imitom, rom Sei-<br />
Zleba es ase ar iyos, rogorc amboben,<br />
aramed imitom, rom mtkicebulebebis<br />
gareSe aseTma laparakma<br />
SeiZleba, Tavad is politika<br />
daazianos, romlis mxardamWeric<br />
Sen xar am qveyanaSi. amgvari ganwyobebis<br />
gaRviveba daazaralebs<br />
dasavlur kurss.<br />
_ vfiqrob, sazogadoebamac<br />
unda gadaxedos Tavis midgomebs<br />
da arc aseTi gadawyvetilebebi da<br />
arc am gadawyvetilebebis amgvari<br />
tipis kritika unda iwvevdes maT-<br />
Si aseT gancdebsa da ganwyobebs.<br />
_ rogor muSaobs rusuli propaganda<br />
CvenTan? ruseTi pirdapir<br />
aravis eubneba, evropa ar ginda, me<br />
amirCieo. rusuli propaganda ori<br />
mimarTulebiT muSaobs: erTi<br />
mxriv, Cvens erTmorwmuneobaze,<br />
rom Turme am gziT ruseTTan er-<br />
Tad Cven SevinarCunebT Cvens kulturas,<br />
TviTmyofadobas, erovnulobas,<br />
meore mxriv, aRvivebs swored<br />
evroskepticizms, evropuli<br />
`ruseTi evropis mimarT nihilizms,<br />
evroskepticizms swored evropuli<br />
instituciebis diskreditaciiT cdilobs da<br />
axla, rodesac Cven gviwevs am evropuli<br />
instituciis kritika, swored am konteqstidan<br />
gamomdinare unda gvesmodes, rom es Cvengan<br />
gacilebiT met dasabuTebulobas moiTxovs,<br />
rom Cveni kritika ruseTis wisqvilze ar<br />
asxamdes wyals. vgulisxmob imgvari tipis<br />
gancxadebebs, rodesac gadaWriT saubroben,<br />
rom strasburgze xeli miuwvdeba putins, rom<br />
mosamarTleebi moisyides da a. S. amgvari<br />
narativi, cxadia, skepticizms aRvivebs evropis,<br />
evropuli struqturebis mimarT~<br />
struqturebis mimarT nihilizms<br />
da aseve cdilobs, rom evropa<br />
Cvens sazogadoebaSi aRiqmebodes,<br />
rogorc gamryvneli. bolo periodis<br />
nebismier angariSebSi, romelic<br />
Seqmnilia rusul propagandasTan<br />
dakavSirebiT, am or mimarTulebas<br />
gamoyofs yovelTvis. es<br />
ar xdeba mxolod saqarTveloSi,<br />
putini evroskepticizmis gaRvivebas<br />
yvelgan cdilobs, gansakuTrebiT<br />
im saxelmwifoebSi, romlebic<br />
evropuli ojaxis axali wevrebi<br />
arian. CvenTan aqamdec aRvivebda<br />
amas, magram es gamosdioda<br />
mxolod maTTan, vinc ideurad, ase<br />
Tu ise, iribad mainc maTi mokav-<br />
Sire iyo, axla ki mas saSualeba<br />
mieca, es gaaRvivos im adamianebSic<br />
ki, romlebic evropisken arian. me<br />
magaliTad politikosi rom viyo,<br />
xels ar Sevuwyobdi evroskepticizmis<br />
gaRvivebas.<br />
_ urTmeliZe gaxarebuli da<br />
aRfrTovanebuli gamovida, ambobs,<br />
rom strasburgis es gadawyvetileba<br />
misi moraluri gamar-<br />
jvebaa, rom strasburgma aRiara<br />
misi saqme. amas moyva saxelisu-<br />
flebo elitis gancxadebebi, rom<br />
evropam Cveni sasamarTlos miuk-<br />
erZoebloba aRiara, rom Turme<br />
nu ityviT da samarTliani sasa-<br />
marTlo gvqonia. Tqven xarT im<br />
arasamTavrobo organizaciis war-<br />
momadgeneli, romelic arsebul<br />
sasamarTlo sistemas mwvaved<br />
akritikebs. ai, am sasamarTlos um-<br />
niSvnelovanesi gadawyvetileba<br />
aiRo da aRiara strasburgma. axla<br />
ra vqnaT? virwmunoT, rom marT-<br />
la kargi sasamarTlo gvaqvs da<br />
sul tyuilad vakritikebdiT?<br />
_ kargi kiTxvaa... da es araa,<br />
ubralod, kiTxva, romelic mxolod<br />
Jurnalists uCndeba... es<br />
kiTxva dRes yvela Cvengans awuxebs.<br />
mec mainteresebs, ra moxda. me<br />
mainc mgonia, rom Cven detalurad<br />
unda gavecnoT saqmes, kargad gavaanalizoT,<br />
ra moxda, ratom moxda<br />
ase? rame sxvanairad xom ar moxda,<br />
rame xom ar Seicvala? zogadad,<br />
evropuli samamarTlo mozomilia<br />
xolme, rodesac sasamarTloebis<br />
Sefasebas akeTebs da samarTliani<br />
sasamarTlos uflebaze msjelobs.<br />
isic vTqvaT, CvenSi gamarjvebis<br />
molodini gaaCina droebiTi RonisZiebis<br />
gamoyenebam, rodesac evropis<br />
sasamarTlom gamoiyena uprecedento<br />
RonisZieba am tipis saqmeebisTvis<br />
da SeaCera adgilobrivi<br />
gadawyvetilebis aRsruleba. swored<br />
aman gaaCina CvenSi Zalian didi<br />
molodini da, faqtobrivad, aRarc<br />
ki mivuyvebodiT samarTlebriv detalebs<br />
da vfiqrobdiT, rom es<br />
saqme ueWvelad mogebuli iyo, imitom<br />
rom, rogorc wesi, rodesac<br />
droebiTi RonisZiebis gamoyeneba<br />
xdeba, is saqme warmatebiT sruldeba<br />
xolme. SeiZleba, profesiulad<br />
mcdari molodinic iyo, Sei-<br />
Zleba ufro meti, me piradad Cem<br />
Tavze vambob, metad unda CavRrmavebodiT<br />
sakiTxebs... Cven axla<br />
vswavlobT am saqmes, kidev erTxel<br />
detalurad unda gavecnoT yvelafers<br />
da mxolod mogvianebiT<br />
iqneba SesaZlebeli imis Tqma, ra<br />
moxda. ufro adekvatur pasuxebs<br />
mere gagcemT.<br />
_ gasagebia, magram ra vuyoT<br />
Seqmnil situacias, rodesac am<br />
talRaze xelisufleba utifrad<br />
gvimtkicebs, rom Turme Cven sa-<br />
marTliani sasamarTlo gvqonia?<br />
_ ra Tqma unda, es xelisufleba<br />
yvelanairad cdilobs, rom es<br />
gadawyvetileba politikurad mis-<br />
Tvis sasargeblod warmoaCinos.<br />
sxva Zalac rom yofiliyo xelisuflebaSi,<br />
albaT, isic aseve ecdeboda...<br />
erTi politikosic ar moi-<br />
Zebna xelisuflebaSi, romelic<br />
ityoda, rom axla „rusTavi2-is”<br />
10 N25 (286) 23.07-5.08.2019 w.