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evropis adamianis uflebaTa<br />

sasamarTlos mier „rusTavi 2-is”<br />

saqmeze gamotanil gadawyvetilebaze<br />

da am gadawyvetilebiT Seqmnil<br />

viTarebaze „qronika+~ es-<br />

aubreba giorgi mSvenieraZes:<br />

_ giorgi, rogor SeafasebdiT<br />

im gadawyvetilebas, romelic ad-<br />

amianis uflebaTa evropulma<br />

sasamarTlom „rusTavi2"-is saqmeze<br />

gamoitana (rasac sazogadoe-<br />

baSi Soki moyva) da arxis elvis<br />

siswrafiT gadaformebas axali<br />

mepatronisTvis?<br />

_ es gadawyvetileba ukve mocemulobaa<br />

da am mocemulobiT unda<br />

gavagrZeloT fiqri da moqmedeba.<br />

imitom, rom didma palatam raRac<br />

nawilSi romc gadasinjos es gadawyvetileba,<br />

arsebul mocemulobas,<br />

arsebiTad, mainc veRar Secvlis.<br />

_ diax, didma palatam romc<br />

gamoitanos sxva gadawyvetileba,<br />

es yvelaferi yaramanaSvilebisT-<br />

vis kompensaciis gadaxdiT damT-<br />

avrdeba da ara arxis dabrunebiT.<br />

_ eg Zalian sakamaTo da bundovania,<br />

ra moxdeba mag SemTxvevaSic<br />

ki, Tu didma palatam sxva gadawyvetileba<br />

gamoitana. metic, 18 ivliss<br />

rom sxva gadawyvetileba<br />

gamocxadebuliyo da „rusTavi2"-s<br />

moego saqme, maSinac ki bundovani<br />

iyo, rogor ganviTardeboda movlenebi.<br />

gaurkvevloba iyo da es gaurkvevloba,<br />

sxvaTa Sioris, nawarmoebia<br />

samarTalSi arsebuli bundovanebebiT<br />

da praqtikis ararsebobiT<br />

_ rogor viqceviT amgvar<br />

SemTxvevaSi. amdenad, statuskvo<br />

iyo yvelaze kargi mdgomareoba,<br />

romelic bundovani iyo, gaurkvevelic<br />

ki gaxldaT momavali, magram<br />

mocemulobas inarCunebda,<br />

sadac „rusTavi2-dan” ismoda kritikuli<br />

xma, xma, romelic ar moswonda<br />

xelisuflebas.<br />

_ strasburgis am gadawyvet-<br />

ilebam sazogadoebaSi garkveuli<br />

imedgacrueba gamoiwvia. es gadawyvetileba<br />

ormagadaa damaziane-<br />

beli Cveni qveynisTvis: erTi, rom<br />

am gadawyvetilebis wyalobiT aRar<br />

gveqneba prodasavluri, anti-<br />

rusuli arxi, saidanac ismoda ga-<br />

nsxvavebuli azri, da meore mxriv,<br />

rom es gadawyvetileba gamoitana<br />

evrostruqturam, gamoiwvia anti-<br />

evropuli ganwyoba, rac, isev da<br />

isev, ruseTs awyobs.<br />

_ cxadia, dasaSvebia yvelafrisa<br />

da yvelas kritika, swored amitom<br />

mogvwons Cven dasavluri Rirebulebebi,<br />

rom amis uflebas gvani-<br />

Webs, magram aq gasaTvaliswinebelia<br />

erTi garemoeba: ruseTi evropis<br />

mimarT nihilizms, evroskepticizms<br />

swored evropuli instituciebis<br />

diskreditaciiT cdilobs<br />

da axla, rodesac Cven gviwevs<br />

am evropuli instituciis kritika,<br />

swored am konteqstidan gamomdinare<br />

unda gvesmodes, rom es<br />

Cvengan gacilebiT met dasabuTebulobas<br />

moiTxovs, rom Cveni kritika<br />

ruseTis wisqvilze ar asxamdes<br />

wyals. vgulisxmob imgvari tipis<br />

gancxadebebs, rodesac gada-<br />

WriT saubroben, rom strasburgze<br />

xeli miuwvdeba putins, rom mosamarTleebi<br />

moisyides da a. S. amgvari<br />

narativi, cxadia, skepticizms<br />

aRvivebs evropis, evropuli struqturebis<br />

mimarT. adamiani elementarulad<br />

fiqrobs, Tu iqac miuwvdeba<br />

xeli putins, Tanac ise, rom<br />

instituciebis mosyidvac SeuZlia,<br />

maSin raRa gvinda iq, ra azri aqvs,<br />

putini iqac dagvazianebs. Tan, gasaTvaliswinebelia<br />

is, rom amgvari<br />

gancxadebebi amomrCevlis ruseTis<br />

mimarT loialurad ganwyobil nawilSi<br />

ki ara, swored prodasavlurad<br />

ganwyobil amomrCevelSi iwvevs<br />

gulacruebas. xSirad bevr maTgans<br />

evropuli Rirebulebebi ki ar<br />

10<br />

rezo SatakiSvili<br />

597 94 42 50<br />

294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com<br />

aqvs gacnobierebuli da amitom ki<br />

araa prodasavlurad ganwyobili,<br />

aramed imitom, rom is dasavleTSi<br />

xedavs usafrTxo momavals, dasavleTi<br />

masSi qmnis usafrTxoebis gancdas.<br />

cxadia, rodesac adamians<br />

aseTi gancda aqvs, masSi imedgacruebas<br />

iwvevs rogorc es gadawyvetileba,<br />

ise am gadawyvetilebis<br />

gamo sasamarTlos kritika. miT<br />

ufro, Tu es kritika iseT eWvebs<br />

efuZneba, romelzec vsaubrobdiT,<br />

cxadia, iseT ganwyobebs gaaRvivebs,<br />

romelic sabolood isev ruseTis<br />

wisqvilze daasxams wyals.<br />

_ mokled, am ganwyobebs aRvi-<br />

vebs TviTon gadawyvetilebac da<br />

am gadawyvetilebis kritikac.<br />

gadawyvetilebas Cven ver Sevcv-<br />

liT da rac SegviZlia isaa, rom<br />

Tavi SevikavoT gadawyvetilebis<br />

kritikisgan?<br />

_ ara, me magas ar vgulisxmob,<br />

gadawyvetilebis kritika aranair<br />

antidasavlur ganwyobebs ar aCens,<br />

antidasavlur ganwyobebs aCens am<br />

gadawyvetilebis mimRebi institutis<br />

dadanaSauleba putinTan garigebaSi!<br />

esaa problema. politikosebs,<br />

rodesac aseT gancxadebas<br />

akeTeben, minimum, raRac mtkicebuleba<br />

unda hqondeT da ase<br />

haerze ar laparakobdnen.<br />

_ putinis ruseTs rom xeli mi-<br />

uwvdeba evropul istebliSmentze,<br />

es ra, axalia? avstriis yofilma<br />

kanclerma ruseTis rkinigzaSi<br />

daiwyo muSaoba, sul axlaxan<br />

vnaxeT, ra gadawyvetileba mi-<br />

iRo igive evrosabWos asambleam<br />

ruseTTan dakavSirebiT. anu mT-<br />

lad yuriT moTreulic araa, rom<br />

ruseTs evropul institutebSi,<br />

tebSi,<br />

saxelmwifo struqturebSi gavlena<br />

aqvs da xSirad maRali Tanam-<br />

debobis pirebic hyavs nayidi.<br />

_ gasagebia, magram rodesac vsaubrobT<br />

konkretul mosamarTleebze<br />

da konkretul gadawyvetilebaze<br />

da rodesac maTze aseT Tamam<br />

gancxadebebs vakeTebT, me visurvebdi<br />

ufro met mtkicebulebas.<br />

_ mainc, ra tipis mtkicebule-<br />

ba unda iyos? maTi mosyidvis<br />

faruli Canaweri? erT-erTi mosamarTle,<br />

romelmac es gadaw-<br />

yvetileba gamoitana, aRmoCnda,<br />

rom Cveni universitetis sapatio<br />

doqtoric ki yofila, magram gam-<br />

oirCeva antiqarTuli pozicie-<br />

biT, saqarTvelos ganixilavs okupantad,<br />

rom Turme Cven dagvipy-<br />

giorgi mSvenieraZe:<br />

`mesakuTris<br />

cvlileba<br />

aucileblad<br />

moaxdens<br />

gavlenas<br />

saredaqcio<br />

politikaze. Cven<br />

aseTi ram<br />

gamogvivlia,<br />

pirveli ar aris~<br />

ria afxazeTi da a. S. swored im<br />

narativiT azrovnebs, ra nara-<br />

tivsac nergavs putini. cxadia, es<br />

pirdapiri mtkicebuleba araa misi<br />

putinTan kavSiris, magram eWvis<br />

safuZvelsac ar iZleva?<br />

_ gadawyvetileba mxolod mag<br />

mosamarTles ar miuRia, garda amisa,<br />

rodesac adamiani saqarTvelosTan<br />

dakavSirebiT raRacas arasworad<br />

fiqrobs, Zneli saTqmelia,<br />

es avtomaturad niSnavs Tu ara<br />

imas, rom is gadawyvetilebebsac<br />

arasworad wers. Tuki mtkicebulebebi<br />

ar arsebobs, me politikosebis<br />

adgilze mozomili viqnebodi<br />

gancxadebebSi, ara imitom, rom Sei-<br />

Zleba es ase ar iyos, rogorc amboben,<br />

aramed imitom, rom mtkicebulebebis<br />

gareSe aseTma laparakma<br />

SeiZleba, Tavad is politika<br />

daazianos, romlis mxardamWeric<br />

Sen xar am qveyanaSi. amgvari ganwyobebis<br />

gaRviveba daazaralebs<br />

dasavlur kurss.<br />

_ vfiqrob, sazogadoebamac<br />

unda gadaxedos Tavis midgomebs<br />

da arc aseTi gadawyvetilebebi da<br />

arc am gadawyvetilebebis amgvari<br />

tipis kritika unda iwvevdes maT-<br />

Si aseT gancdebsa da ganwyobebs.<br />

_ rogor muSaobs rusuli propaganda<br />

CvenTan? ruseTi pirdapir<br />

aravis eubneba, evropa ar ginda, me<br />

amirCieo. rusuli propaganda ori<br />

mimarTulebiT muSaobs: erTi<br />

mxriv, Cvens erTmorwmuneobaze,<br />

rom Turme am gziT ruseTTan er-<br />

Tad Cven SevinarCunebT Cvens kulturas,<br />

TviTmyofadobas, erovnulobas,<br />

meore mxriv, aRvivebs swored<br />

evroskepticizms, evropuli<br />

`ruseTi evropis mimarT nihilizms,<br />

evroskepticizms swored evropuli<br />

instituciebis diskreditaciiT cdilobs da<br />

axla, rodesac Cven gviwevs am evropuli<br />

instituciis kritika, swored am konteqstidan<br />

gamomdinare unda gvesmodes, rom es Cvengan<br />

gacilebiT met dasabuTebulobas moiTxovs,<br />

rom Cveni kritika ruseTis wisqvilze ar<br />

asxamdes wyals. vgulisxmob imgvari tipis<br />

gancxadebebs, rodesac gadaWriT saubroben,<br />

rom strasburgze xeli miuwvdeba putins, rom<br />

mosamarTleebi moisyides da a. S. amgvari<br />

narativi, cxadia, skepticizms aRvivebs evropis,<br />

evropuli struqturebis mimarT~<br />

struqturebis mimarT nihilizms<br />

da aseve cdilobs, rom evropa<br />

Cvens sazogadoebaSi aRiqmebodes,<br />

rogorc gamryvneli. bolo periodis<br />

nebismier angariSebSi, romelic<br />

Seqmnilia rusul propagandasTan<br />

dakavSirebiT, am or mimarTulebas<br />

gamoyofs yovelTvis. es<br />

ar xdeba mxolod saqarTveloSi,<br />

putini evroskepticizmis gaRvivebas<br />

yvelgan cdilobs, gansakuTrebiT<br />

im saxelmwifoebSi, romlebic<br />

evropuli ojaxis axali wevrebi<br />

arian. CvenTan aqamdec aRvivebda<br />

amas, magram es gamosdioda<br />

mxolod maTTan, vinc ideurad, ase<br />

Tu ise, iribad mainc maTi mokav-<br />

Sire iyo, axla ki mas saSualeba<br />

mieca, es gaaRvivos im adamianebSic<br />

ki, romlebic evropisken arian. me<br />

magaliTad politikosi rom viyo,<br />

xels ar Sevuwyobdi evroskepticizmis<br />

gaRvivebas.<br />

_ urTmeliZe gaxarebuli da<br />

aRfrTovanebuli gamovida, ambobs,<br />

rom strasburgis es gadawyvetileba<br />

misi moraluri gamar-<br />

jvebaa, rom strasburgma aRiara<br />

misi saqme. amas moyva saxelisu-<br />

flebo elitis gancxadebebi, rom<br />

evropam Cveni sasamarTlos miuk-<br />

erZoebloba aRiara, rom Turme<br />

nu ityviT da samarTliani sasa-<br />

marTlo gvqonia. Tqven xarT im<br />

arasamTavrobo organizaciis war-<br />

momadgeneli, romelic arsebul<br />

sasamarTlo sistemas mwvaved<br />

akritikebs. ai, am sasamarTlos um-<br />

niSvnelovanesi gadawyvetileba<br />

aiRo da aRiara strasburgma. axla<br />

ra vqnaT? virwmunoT, rom marT-<br />

la kargi sasamarTlo gvaqvs da<br />

sul tyuilad vakritikebdiT?<br />

_ kargi kiTxvaa... da es araa,<br />

ubralod, kiTxva, romelic mxolod<br />

Jurnalists uCndeba... es<br />

kiTxva dRes yvela Cvengans awuxebs.<br />

mec mainteresebs, ra moxda. me<br />

mainc mgonia, rom Cven detalurad<br />

unda gavecnoT saqmes, kargad gavaanalizoT,<br />

ra moxda, ratom moxda<br />

ase? rame sxvanairad xom ar moxda,<br />

rame xom ar Seicvala? zogadad,<br />

evropuli samamarTlo mozomilia<br />

xolme, rodesac sasamarTloebis<br />

Sefasebas akeTebs da samarTliani<br />

sasamarTlos uflebaze msjelobs.<br />

isic vTqvaT, CvenSi gamarjvebis<br />

molodini gaaCina droebiTi RonisZiebis<br />

gamoyenebam, rodesac evropis<br />

sasamarTlom gamoiyena uprecedento<br />

RonisZieba am tipis saqmeebisTvis<br />

da SeaCera adgilobrivi<br />

gadawyvetilebis aRsruleba. swored<br />

aman gaaCina CvenSi Zalian didi<br />

molodini da, faqtobrivad, aRarc<br />

ki mivuyvebodiT samarTlebriv detalebs<br />

da vfiqrobdiT, rom es<br />

saqme ueWvelad mogebuli iyo, imitom<br />

rom, rogorc wesi, rodesac<br />

droebiTi RonisZiebis gamoyeneba<br />

xdeba, is saqme warmatebiT sruldeba<br />

xolme. SeiZleba, profesiulad<br />

mcdari molodinic iyo, Sei-<br />

Zleba ufro meti, me piradad Cem<br />

Tavze vambob, metad unda CavRrmavebodiT<br />

sakiTxebs... Cven axla<br />

vswavlobT am saqmes, kidev erTxel<br />

detalurad unda gavecnoT yvelafers<br />

da mxolod mogvianebiT<br />

iqneba SesaZlebeli imis Tqma, ra<br />

moxda. ufro adekvatur pasuxebs<br />

mere gagcemT.<br />

_ gasagebia, magram ra vuyoT<br />

Seqmnil situacias, rodesac am<br />

talRaze xelisufleba utifrad<br />

gvimtkicebs, rom Turme Cven sa-<br />

marTliani sasamarTlo gvqonia?<br />

_ ra Tqma unda, es xelisufleba<br />

yvelanairad cdilobs, rom es<br />

gadawyvetileba politikurad mis-<br />

Tvis sasargeblod warmoaCinos.<br />

sxva Zalac rom yofiliyo xelisuflebaSi,<br />

albaT, isic aseve ecdeboda...<br />

erTi politikosic ar moi-<br />

Zebna xelisuflebaSi, romelic<br />

ityoda, rom axla „rusTavi2-is”<br />

10 N25 (286) 23.07-5.08.2019 w.

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