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294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com<br />

`ruseTs saqarTvelos<br />

bolo erTi Tvea, saqarTvelo<br />

giorgi abaSiZe<br />

eqstremalur viTarebaSi cxovrobs.<br />

yovel SemTxvevaSi, gavrilovis<br />

vizitisa da 20 ivnisis mitingis darbevis Semdeg mov-<br />

lenebi elviseburad viTardeba. SesaZloa, zogs SeTqmulebis<br />

Teoria hgonia, magram es politikuri speqtaklebi aSkarad ru-<br />

sul scenars hgavs. sxvaTa Soris, ruseTis faqtors arc kav-<br />

kasiis sakiTxebis eqsperti mamuka areSiZe gamoricxavs, romel-<br />

ic Riad ambobs, rom kremls Cvens qveyanaSi areulobasa da<br />

sakuTari gavlenis gaZlierebaze metad, dasustebuli saq-<br />

arTvelo sWirdeba. sxvaTa Soris, mamuka areSiZe, sxva kolegebTan<br />

erTad, im daxurul Sexvedraze imyofeboda, romelzedac<br />

Ss ministrma usafrTxoebis sakiTxebze momuSave adami-<br />

anebs 20-21 ivnisis movlenebis detalebi gaacno.<br />

„qronika+~-mac saubari am Tem-<br />

iT daiwyo da, cxadia, respondents<br />

hkiTxa, gaxariasTan audienci-<br />

iT darwmunda Tu ara, rom 20-21<br />

ivniss qveyana saxelmwifo gada-<br />

trialebas realurad gadaurCa?<br />

_ batono mamuka, bolo erTi<br />

Tvea, monasteri Zalian areulia.<br />

yvelaferi ki gavrilovis vizitiT<br />

daiwyo, rasac parlamentis win an-<br />

tisaokupacio aqcia da am aqciis<br />

daSla moyva. mogvianebiT, am Te-<br />

maze eqspertebi, maT Soris,<br />

Tqvenc, Ss ministrs SexvdiT, Tum-<br />

ca vidre Sexvedris detalebze<br />

gadavalT, yvelafer imas, rac<br />

xdeba, rogor afasebT? sxvaTa<br />

Soris, gavrilovis krizisamde<br />

minidaZabuloba pankissa da dav-<br />

iTgarejaSi iyo, anu yvelaferi es<br />

erTi jaWvia?<br />

_ diax, yvelaferi kavSirSia. saerTod,<br />

mTeli is procesebi, romelic<br />

bolo Tveebis ganmavlobaSi<br />

saqarTvelosa da saqarTvelosTan<br />

dakavSirebiT viTardeba, piradad<br />

me erTmaneTTan garkveul bmaSi me-<br />

Cveneba, miuxedavad imisa, rom zogierT<br />

SemTxvevaSi logikuri kav-<br />

Siri SesaZloa, arc Candes.<br />

20 aprilis cnobili incidenti<br />

pankisSi Svilmkvdari mamebis aqciisa<br />

da mTavrobaze Setevis fonze<br />

moxda, rasac gareji moyva. paralelurad,<br />

Svilmkvdari mamebis Temac<br />

SenarCunebuli iyo, maCalikaSvilis<br />

TvalsazrisiT. yvelafer amas<br />

ki gavrilovis vizitTan dakavSirebuli<br />

movlenebi moyva. weRandeli<br />

Tqmisa ar iyos, am movlenebs Soris<br />

SesaZloa, pirdapiri kavSiri ar arsebobdes,<br />

magram mimaCnia, rom vi-<br />

Racis uxilavma xelma yvelaferi<br />

movlenebis ganviTarebis erT ja-<br />

WvSi moaqcia da vTvli, rom es procesebi<br />

saqarTvelos teritoriidan<br />

ar imarTeboda.<br />

Tu geopolitikur viTarebas<br />

gadavxedavT, mivxvdebiT, rom analogiuri<br />

raRacebi mxolod Cven-<br />

Tan ar xdeboda. yovel SemTxveva-<br />

Si, kavkasiis regionSi aseTi movlenebi<br />

erTmaneTis miyolebiT moxda.<br />

_ Tu saqarTvelodan ara, maSin<br />

Cndeba logikuri kiTxva: es movlenebi<br />

saidan imarTeba _ Crdil-<br />

oeTidan Tu dasavleTidan?<br />

_ Cven miCveulebi varT, rom<br />

saqarTveloSi movlenebis uaryofiTi<br />

ganviTareba xSirad ruse-<br />

Tis interesebSi Sedis da es varianti,<br />

rasakvirvelia, yvelaze sworia,<br />

magram sxva variantsac ar gamovricxav.<br />

_ e. i., dasavleTs an aSS-s?<br />

_ dasavleTs ise ver aviRebT,<br />

rogorc konkretul qveyanas, Tumca<br />

garkveuli politikuri Zalebi<br />

SeiZleba, dasavleTidanac vigulisxmoT<br />

da samxreTidanac.<br />

_ gasagebia, ruseTs ra mizanic<br />

aqvs _ okupantia da cdilobs, rom<br />

Tavisi klanWebidan ar gagviSvas,<br />

magram dasavleTis an samxreTis<br />

garkveuli politikuri Zalebi<br />

raRas gverCian?<br />

_ samxreT kavkasiaSi sxvadasxva<br />

Zalis centrs Soris _ briuseli<br />

iqneba, vaSingtoni, moskovi, stamboli<br />

Tu Teirani _ gavlenebisTvis<br />

uxilavi brZola mimdinareobs. sxva<br />

aqtorebis CarTulobaze aRarafers<br />

vambob, Tumca arabuli organizaciebi<br />

Tu israelis Sesabamisi<br />

samsaxurebis TanamSromlebic<br />

aqa-iq gakrTebian xolme. zogadad,<br />

es gasakviri ki ara, piriqiT, absoluturad<br />

logikuricaa, miT umetes,<br />

imis fonze, ra brZolebic<br />

cota xnis win kaspiisa da Sav zRvasTan<br />

dakavSirebiT mimdinareobda.<br />

amas garda, ar unda dagvaviwydes,<br />

rom axlo aRmosavleTis gasaRebis<br />

morgebas yvela cdilobs,<br />

maT Soris, Cveni ori mezobeli _<br />

TurqeTi da ruseTi. maTi interesebi<br />

erTmaneTs xan emTxveva, xan ki<br />

_ ara. am saqmeSi mesame mezobeli _<br />

iranic Zalian aqtiuria.<br />

_ e. i., batono mamuka, saqme<br />

imaze rTulad aris, vidre, vTq-<br />

vaT, saxelmwifo gadatrialebaa,<br />

romelzedac<br />

xelisufleba<br />

saubrobs?<br />

_ rasakvirvelia. saxelmwifo<br />

gadatrialebis mcdeloba mTel am<br />

procesSi, ase vTqvaT, mxolod<br />

erTi fragmentia. es saqme ase martivad<br />

ar damTavrdeba da sakuTari<br />

TvaliT naxavT, rom saqarTvelosTvis<br />

daZabuloba, minimum, Semodgomis<br />

CaTvliT gagrZeldeba.<br />

_ eqspertebma Ss ministrTan<br />

20-21 ivnisis movlenebi am glo-<br />

balur konteqstSi ganixileT Tu<br />

Tqveni saubris Tema konkretuli<br />

mitingis darbevas ar gascilebia?<br />

_ Ss ministrTan am Temebze ar<br />

gvisaubria. Cven, ZiriTadad, im<br />

movlenebTan dakavSirebul kiTxvebs<br />

vsvamdiT. es sul saaT-naxevriani<br />

Tu orsaaTiani Sexvedra<br />

iyo da sxva Temebze saubris saSualeba<br />

arc gvqonia, Tan gavrilovis<br />

vizitsa da Semdeg ganviTarebul<br />

movlenebze kiTxvebis farTo<br />

speqtri iyo.<br />

_ Cemi informaciiT, am Sex-<br />

vedris iniciatori Tavad gaxaria<br />

iyo. batono mamuka, Ss ministrma<br />

maincdamainc eqspertebTan Sexve-<br />

dra ratom gadawyvita?<br />

_ saintereso kiTxvaa, romelzec,<br />

simarTle giTxraT, pasuxi ar<br />

maqvs. SeiZleba, Sexvedra, vTqvaT,<br />

erTi politikuri gemovnebis eqspertebTan<br />

yofiliyo, magram cota<br />

bundovania, roca sxvadasxva politikuri<br />

gemovnebis eqspertebs xvdebi,<br />

Tan iTxov, rom Sexvedris Sefasebebi<br />

delikaturi iyos. darwmunebuli<br />

var, iq myof zogierT<br />

pirovnebas delikaturobis dacva<br />

namdvilad gauWirdeboda da, sxva-<br />

Ta Soris, asec moxda. mokled, sxvadasxva<br />

politikuri gemovnebis<br />

eqspertTan Sexvedris amocana Cem-<br />

Tvis cota gaugebari iyo, Tumca,<br />

saboloo jamSi, es Sexvedra imas<br />

emsaxureboda, rom usafrTxoebis<br />

sakiTxebze momuSave eqspertebi<br />

saqmis kursSi yofiliyvnen, im<br />

dRes, realurad, ra moxda da amasTan,<br />

gamoZieba rogor mimdinareobs.<br />

_ im informaciiT, rac Ss min-<br />

istrma mogawodaT, piradad Tqven<br />

darwmundiT, rom saxelmwifo ga-<br />

datrialeba igegmeboda?<br />

_ me erT rameSi davrwmundi:<br />

parlamentis SenobaSi Zalismieri<br />

SeWra igegmeboda, magram ara egzaltirebuli<br />

axalgazrdebis, rogorc<br />

„nacionaluri moZraoba” da<br />

aseve zogierTi opoziciuri partia<br />

cdilobs, rom SemogvTavazos,<br />

aramed organizebuli jgufebis<br />

mier.<br />

_ davuSvaT, organizebuli<br />

jgufebi parlamentSi SeWras mar-<br />

Tla cdilobdnen, magram amiT ra<br />

daSavdeboda? „vardebis revol-<br />

uciisgan” gansxvavebiT, 20 ivniss<br />

parlamentSi sxdoma ar tardebo-<br />

da, Sesabamisad, iq Sesvlas ra<br />

mohyveboda?<br />

_ yvelafers logikurad SevxedoT:<br />

ra problemebi SeiZleboda<br />

gamoewvia mixeil saakaSvilis iq<br />

Sevardnas, rom ar yofiliyo, erTi<br />

mxriv, zogierTi Zalovani struqturis<br />

Ralati da, meore mxriv, SevardnaZe<br />

darbazidan rom ar<br />

gasuliyo?<br />

_ im SemTxvevaSi, Tu SevardnaZ-<br />

es dacva sxdomaTa darbazidan ar<br />

gaiyvanda, SesaZloa, fizikuri<br />

dapirispireba dawyebuliyo.<br />

_ diax, xelCarTuli Setakeba<br />

momxdariyo, magram, saboloo jam-<br />

Si, yvelaferi es saakaSvilisa da<br />

misi gundisTvis Zalis, aseve imis<br />

demonstrireba iqneboda, rom maT<br />

SeuZliaT, Sedegze orientirebuli<br />

radikaluri nabijebi gadadgan,<br />

anu sxvanairad rom vTqvaT, yvelaferi<br />

es imis demonstrireba<br />

iqneboda, rom Sno aqvT.<br />

_ SeiZleba, magram, batono ma-<br />

muka, erT garemoebas miaqcieT<br />

yuradReba: 2003 wlis 23 noembers<br />

parlamentSi sxdoma tardeboda,<br />

romelsac axali parlamentis uflebamosileba<br />

unda ecno. Sesabam-<br />

isad, darbazSi SeWra amitom iyo<br />

mniSvnelovani, magram 20 ivniss sa-<br />

kanonmdebo organoSi araferi<br />

imar<br />

arTeboda da iq SesvliT opozi-<br />

cia ras miaRwevda?<br />

_ warmoidgineT, Sesuliyvnen da<br />

parlamentis Senoba daekavebinaT.<br />

amis Semdeg, ramdenime xnis ganmavlobaSi,<br />

yuradRebis centrSi iqnebodnen<br />

da mTeli msoflio gaigeb-<br />

`sxvaTa Soris, pirveli<br />

kiTxvebi, romelic me<br />

davsvi, aseTi iyo: jer<br />

erTi, brZaneba vin gasca,<br />

- es sazogadoebas<br />

gansakuTrebiT<br />

aintersebs da, meore, -<br />

apirebs Tu ara gaxaria<br />

gadadgomas? orive<br />

kiTxvaze lakoniuri<br />

pasuxi iyo da Tqva, rom<br />

brZaneba man gasca da<br />

gadadgomas ar apirebs~<br />

mamuka areSiZe:<br />

`es saqme<br />

martivad ar<br />

damTavrdeba<br />

da daZabuloba<br />

Semodgomis<br />

CaTvliT<br />

gagrZeldeba!~<br />

da, saqarTvelos xelisufleba imdenad<br />

sustia, rom adamianebis<br />

jgufs SeuZlia, parlamentis Senoba<br />

Tavisuflad daikavoso. es ki<br />

imisken gadadgmuli erTi nabiji<br />

iqneboda, rom momavalSi xelisuflebis<br />

demontaJi momxdariyo.<br />

sxvaTa Soris, ramdenime wlis<br />

win analogiuri indoeTis parlamentSi<br />

moxda _ SenobaSi SeiWrnen,<br />

parlamentis sxdomaTa darbazi<br />

daikaves. marTalia, ori-sami saa-<br />

Tis Semdeg es xalxi darbazidan gamoiyvanes,<br />

magram amiT imis demonstrireba<br />

moxda, rom xelisufleba<br />

susti iyo da ori Tvis Semdeg<br />

indoeTis premieri da, saerTod,<br />

mTeli ministrTa kabineti Seicvala.<br />

_ mokled, msofliosTvis<br />

saqarTvelos xelisuflebis, min-<br />

imum, sisustis demonstrireba<br />

didi xnis ganmavlobaSi mzaddeboda<br />

da gavrilovis viziti, ubral-<br />

od, sababad gamoiyenes?<br />

_ rasakvirvelia. yvelaferi es<br />

ufro adre mzaddeboda da gavrilovis<br />

viziti sababi iyo, anu amiT<br />

SesaZloa, movlenebi daCqarda. isic<br />

SeiZleba, rom gavrilovis vizitis<br />

Taobaze amaTTvis cnobili<br />

iyo, magram mis Camosvlamde protests<br />

maincdamainc aqtiurad ar<br />

gamoTqvamdnen.<br />

_ wina dRes, gavrilovis saq-<br />

arTveloSi Camosvlis gamo, saprotesto<br />

aqcia prezidentis rezi-<br />

denciasTan gaimarTa.<br />

_ ki batono, magram iseTi protesti,<br />

rogoric mere gamoTqves,<br />

ar yofila. aqedan gamomdinare,<br />

gavrilovis viziti, SeiZleba, sababad<br />

ganixileboda, Tumca ver vityvi,<br />

rom yvelaferi, maincdamainc,<br />

gavrilovis vizitTan iyo misadagebuli.<br />

_ qarTulma specsamsaxurebma<br />

am scenaris Sesaxeb icodnen? _ es<br />

kiTxva Ss ministrisTvis xom ar<br />

dagisvamT, batono mamuka?<br />

_ diax, es kiTxva davsviT, magram<br />

es is Temaa, romelzedac saubrisgan<br />

delikaturad Sevikaveb Tavs.<br />

_ zemoxsenebul Sexvedraze aq-<br />

centebi arsebuli politikuri<br />

krizisidan gamosavalzec gakeTda?<br />

8 N25 (286) 23.07-5.08.2019 w.

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