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294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com<br />
`ruseTs saqarTvelos<br />
bolo erTi Tvea, saqarTvelo<br />
giorgi abaSiZe<br />
eqstremalur viTarebaSi cxovrobs.<br />
yovel SemTxvevaSi, gavrilovis<br />
vizitisa da 20 ivnisis mitingis darbevis Semdeg mov-<br />
lenebi elviseburad viTardeba. SesaZloa, zogs SeTqmulebis<br />
Teoria hgonia, magram es politikuri speqtaklebi aSkarad ru-<br />
sul scenars hgavs. sxvaTa Soris, ruseTis faqtors arc kav-<br />
kasiis sakiTxebis eqsperti mamuka areSiZe gamoricxavs, romel-<br />
ic Riad ambobs, rom kremls Cvens qveyanaSi areulobasa da<br />
sakuTari gavlenis gaZlierebaze metad, dasustebuli saq-<br />
arTvelo sWirdeba. sxvaTa Soris, mamuka areSiZe, sxva kolegebTan<br />
erTad, im daxurul Sexvedraze imyofeboda, romelzedac<br />
Ss ministrma usafrTxoebis sakiTxebze momuSave adami-<br />
anebs 20-21 ivnisis movlenebis detalebi gaacno.<br />
„qronika+~-mac saubari am Tem-<br />
iT daiwyo da, cxadia, respondents<br />
hkiTxa, gaxariasTan audienci-<br />
iT darwmunda Tu ara, rom 20-21<br />
ivniss qveyana saxelmwifo gada-<br />
trialebas realurad gadaurCa?<br />
_ batono mamuka, bolo erTi<br />
Tvea, monasteri Zalian areulia.<br />
yvelaferi ki gavrilovis vizitiT<br />
daiwyo, rasac parlamentis win an-<br />
tisaokupacio aqcia da am aqciis<br />
daSla moyva. mogvianebiT, am Te-<br />
maze eqspertebi, maT Soris,<br />
Tqvenc, Ss ministrs SexvdiT, Tum-<br />
ca vidre Sexvedris detalebze<br />
gadavalT, yvelafer imas, rac<br />
xdeba, rogor afasebT? sxvaTa<br />
Soris, gavrilovis krizisamde<br />
minidaZabuloba pankissa da dav-<br />
iTgarejaSi iyo, anu yvelaferi es<br />
erTi jaWvia?<br />
_ diax, yvelaferi kavSirSia. saerTod,<br />
mTeli is procesebi, romelic<br />
bolo Tveebis ganmavlobaSi<br />
saqarTvelosa da saqarTvelosTan<br />
dakavSirebiT viTardeba, piradad<br />
me erTmaneTTan garkveul bmaSi me-<br />
Cveneba, miuxedavad imisa, rom zogierT<br />
SemTxvevaSi logikuri kav-<br />
Siri SesaZloa, arc Candes.<br />
20 aprilis cnobili incidenti<br />
pankisSi Svilmkvdari mamebis aqciisa<br />
da mTavrobaze Setevis fonze<br />
moxda, rasac gareji moyva. paralelurad,<br />
Svilmkvdari mamebis Temac<br />
SenarCunebuli iyo, maCalikaSvilis<br />
TvalsazrisiT. yvelafer amas<br />
ki gavrilovis vizitTan dakavSirebuli<br />
movlenebi moyva. weRandeli<br />
Tqmisa ar iyos, am movlenebs Soris<br />
SesaZloa, pirdapiri kavSiri ar arsebobdes,<br />
magram mimaCnia, rom vi-<br />
Racis uxilavma xelma yvelaferi<br />
movlenebis ganviTarebis erT ja-<br />
WvSi moaqcia da vTvli, rom es procesebi<br />
saqarTvelos teritoriidan<br />
ar imarTeboda.<br />
Tu geopolitikur viTarebas<br />
gadavxedavT, mivxvdebiT, rom analogiuri<br />
raRacebi mxolod Cven-<br />
Tan ar xdeboda. yovel SemTxveva-<br />
Si, kavkasiis regionSi aseTi movlenebi<br />
erTmaneTis miyolebiT moxda.<br />
_ Tu saqarTvelodan ara, maSin<br />
Cndeba logikuri kiTxva: es movlenebi<br />
saidan imarTeba _ Crdil-<br />
oeTidan Tu dasavleTidan?<br />
_ Cven miCveulebi varT, rom<br />
saqarTveloSi movlenebis uaryofiTi<br />
ganviTareba xSirad ruse-<br />
Tis interesebSi Sedis da es varianti,<br />
rasakvirvelia, yvelaze sworia,<br />
magram sxva variantsac ar gamovricxav.<br />
_ e. i., dasavleTs an aSS-s?<br />
_ dasavleTs ise ver aviRebT,<br />
rogorc konkretul qveyanas, Tumca<br />
garkveuli politikuri Zalebi<br />
SeiZleba, dasavleTidanac vigulisxmoT<br />
da samxreTidanac.<br />
_ gasagebia, ruseTs ra mizanic<br />
aqvs _ okupantia da cdilobs, rom<br />
Tavisi klanWebidan ar gagviSvas,<br />
magram dasavleTis an samxreTis<br />
garkveuli politikuri Zalebi<br />
raRas gverCian?<br />
_ samxreT kavkasiaSi sxvadasxva<br />
Zalis centrs Soris _ briuseli<br />
iqneba, vaSingtoni, moskovi, stamboli<br />
Tu Teirani _ gavlenebisTvis<br />
uxilavi brZola mimdinareobs. sxva<br />
aqtorebis CarTulobaze aRarafers<br />
vambob, Tumca arabuli organizaciebi<br />
Tu israelis Sesabamisi<br />
samsaxurebis TanamSromlebic<br />
aqa-iq gakrTebian xolme. zogadad,<br />
es gasakviri ki ara, piriqiT, absoluturad<br />
logikuricaa, miT umetes,<br />
imis fonze, ra brZolebic<br />
cota xnis win kaspiisa da Sav zRvasTan<br />
dakavSirebiT mimdinareobda.<br />
amas garda, ar unda dagvaviwydes,<br />
rom axlo aRmosavleTis gasaRebis<br />
morgebas yvela cdilobs,<br />
maT Soris, Cveni ori mezobeli _<br />
TurqeTi da ruseTi. maTi interesebi<br />
erTmaneTs xan emTxveva, xan ki<br />
_ ara. am saqmeSi mesame mezobeli _<br />
iranic Zalian aqtiuria.<br />
_ e. i., batono mamuka, saqme<br />
imaze rTulad aris, vidre, vTq-<br />
vaT, saxelmwifo gadatrialebaa,<br />
romelzedac<br />
xelisufleba<br />
saubrobs?<br />
_ rasakvirvelia. saxelmwifo<br />
gadatrialebis mcdeloba mTel am<br />
procesSi, ase vTqvaT, mxolod<br />
erTi fragmentia. es saqme ase martivad<br />
ar damTavrdeba da sakuTari<br />
TvaliT naxavT, rom saqarTvelosTvis<br />
daZabuloba, minimum, Semodgomis<br />
CaTvliT gagrZeldeba.<br />
_ eqspertebma Ss ministrTan<br />
20-21 ivnisis movlenebi am glo-<br />
balur konteqstSi ganixileT Tu<br />
Tqveni saubris Tema konkretuli<br />
mitingis darbevas ar gascilebia?<br />
_ Ss ministrTan am Temebze ar<br />
gvisaubria. Cven, ZiriTadad, im<br />
movlenebTan dakavSirebul kiTxvebs<br />
vsvamdiT. es sul saaT-naxevriani<br />
Tu orsaaTiani Sexvedra<br />
iyo da sxva Temebze saubris saSualeba<br />
arc gvqonia, Tan gavrilovis<br />
vizitsa da Semdeg ganviTarebul<br />
movlenebze kiTxvebis farTo<br />
speqtri iyo.<br />
_ Cemi informaciiT, am Sex-<br />
vedris iniciatori Tavad gaxaria<br />
iyo. batono mamuka, Ss ministrma<br />
maincdamainc eqspertebTan Sexve-<br />
dra ratom gadawyvita?<br />
_ saintereso kiTxvaa, romelzec,<br />
simarTle giTxraT, pasuxi ar<br />
maqvs. SeiZleba, Sexvedra, vTqvaT,<br />
erTi politikuri gemovnebis eqspertebTan<br />
yofiliyo, magram cota<br />
bundovania, roca sxvadasxva politikuri<br />
gemovnebis eqspertebs xvdebi,<br />
Tan iTxov, rom Sexvedris Sefasebebi<br />
delikaturi iyos. darwmunebuli<br />
var, iq myof zogierT<br />
pirovnebas delikaturobis dacva<br />
namdvilad gauWirdeboda da, sxva-<br />
Ta Soris, asec moxda. mokled, sxvadasxva<br />
politikuri gemovnebis<br />
eqspertTan Sexvedris amocana Cem-<br />
Tvis cota gaugebari iyo, Tumca,<br />
saboloo jamSi, es Sexvedra imas<br />
emsaxureboda, rom usafrTxoebis<br />
sakiTxebze momuSave eqspertebi<br />
saqmis kursSi yofiliyvnen, im<br />
dRes, realurad, ra moxda da amasTan,<br />
gamoZieba rogor mimdinareobs.<br />
_ im informaciiT, rac Ss min-<br />
istrma mogawodaT, piradad Tqven<br />
darwmundiT, rom saxelmwifo ga-<br />
datrialeba igegmeboda?<br />
_ me erT rameSi davrwmundi:<br />
parlamentis SenobaSi Zalismieri<br />
SeWra igegmeboda, magram ara egzaltirebuli<br />
axalgazrdebis, rogorc<br />
„nacionaluri moZraoba” da<br />
aseve zogierTi opoziciuri partia<br />
cdilobs, rom SemogvTavazos,<br />
aramed organizebuli jgufebis<br />
mier.<br />
_ davuSvaT, organizebuli<br />
jgufebi parlamentSi SeWras mar-<br />
Tla cdilobdnen, magram amiT ra<br />
daSavdeboda? „vardebis revol-<br />
uciisgan” gansxvavebiT, 20 ivniss<br />
parlamentSi sxdoma ar tardebo-<br />
da, Sesabamisad, iq Sesvlas ra<br />
mohyveboda?<br />
_ yvelafers logikurad SevxedoT:<br />
ra problemebi SeiZleboda<br />
gamoewvia mixeil saakaSvilis iq<br />
Sevardnas, rom ar yofiliyo, erTi<br />
mxriv, zogierTi Zalovani struqturis<br />
Ralati da, meore mxriv, SevardnaZe<br />
darbazidan rom ar<br />
gasuliyo?<br />
_ im SemTxvevaSi, Tu SevardnaZ-<br />
es dacva sxdomaTa darbazidan ar<br />
gaiyvanda, SesaZloa, fizikuri<br />
dapirispireba dawyebuliyo.<br />
_ diax, xelCarTuli Setakeba<br />
momxdariyo, magram, saboloo jam-<br />
Si, yvelaferi es saakaSvilisa da<br />
misi gundisTvis Zalis, aseve imis<br />
demonstrireba iqneboda, rom maT<br />
SeuZliaT, Sedegze orientirebuli<br />
radikaluri nabijebi gadadgan,<br />
anu sxvanairad rom vTqvaT, yvelaferi<br />
es imis demonstrireba<br />
iqneboda, rom Sno aqvT.<br />
_ SeiZleba, magram, batono ma-<br />
muka, erT garemoebas miaqcieT<br />
yuradReba: 2003 wlis 23 noembers<br />
parlamentSi sxdoma tardeboda,<br />
romelsac axali parlamentis uflebamosileba<br />
unda ecno. Sesabam-<br />
isad, darbazSi SeWra amitom iyo<br />
mniSvnelovani, magram 20 ivniss sa-<br />
kanonmdebo organoSi araferi<br />
imar<br />
arTeboda da iq SesvliT opozi-<br />
cia ras miaRwevda?<br />
_ warmoidgineT, Sesuliyvnen da<br />
parlamentis Senoba daekavebinaT.<br />
amis Semdeg, ramdenime xnis ganmavlobaSi,<br />
yuradRebis centrSi iqnebodnen<br />
da mTeli msoflio gaigeb-<br />
`sxvaTa Soris, pirveli<br />
kiTxvebi, romelic me<br />
davsvi, aseTi iyo: jer<br />
erTi, brZaneba vin gasca,<br />
- es sazogadoebas<br />
gansakuTrebiT<br />
aintersebs da, meore, -<br />
apirebs Tu ara gaxaria<br />
gadadgomas? orive<br />
kiTxvaze lakoniuri<br />
pasuxi iyo da Tqva, rom<br />
brZaneba man gasca da<br />
gadadgomas ar apirebs~<br />
mamuka areSiZe:<br />
`es saqme<br />
martivad ar<br />
damTavrdeba<br />
da daZabuloba<br />
Semodgomis<br />
CaTvliT<br />
gagrZeldeba!~<br />
da, saqarTvelos xelisufleba imdenad<br />
sustia, rom adamianebis<br />
jgufs SeuZlia, parlamentis Senoba<br />
Tavisuflad daikavoso. es ki<br />
imisken gadadgmuli erTi nabiji<br />
iqneboda, rom momavalSi xelisuflebis<br />
demontaJi momxdariyo.<br />
sxvaTa Soris, ramdenime wlis<br />
win analogiuri indoeTis parlamentSi<br />
moxda _ SenobaSi SeiWrnen,<br />
parlamentis sxdomaTa darbazi<br />
daikaves. marTalia, ori-sami saa-<br />
Tis Semdeg es xalxi darbazidan gamoiyvanes,<br />
magram amiT imis demonstrireba<br />
moxda, rom xelisufleba<br />
susti iyo da ori Tvis Semdeg<br />
indoeTis premieri da, saerTod,<br />
mTeli ministrTa kabineti Seicvala.<br />
_ mokled, msofliosTvis<br />
saqarTvelos xelisuflebis, min-<br />
imum, sisustis demonstrireba<br />
didi xnis ganmavlobaSi mzaddeboda<br />
da gavrilovis viziti, ubral-<br />
od, sababad gamoiyenes?<br />
_ rasakvirvelia. yvelaferi es<br />
ufro adre mzaddeboda da gavrilovis<br />
viziti sababi iyo, anu amiT<br />
SesaZloa, movlenebi daCqarda. isic<br />
SeiZleba, rom gavrilovis vizitis<br />
Taobaze amaTTvis cnobili<br />
iyo, magram mis Camosvlamde protests<br />
maincdamainc aqtiurad ar<br />
gamoTqvamdnen.<br />
_ wina dRes, gavrilovis saq-<br />
arTveloSi Camosvlis gamo, saprotesto<br />
aqcia prezidentis rezi-<br />
denciasTan gaimarTa.<br />
_ ki batono, magram iseTi protesti,<br />
rogoric mere gamoTqves,<br />
ar yofila. aqedan gamomdinare,<br />
gavrilovis viziti, SeiZleba, sababad<br />
ganixileboda, Tumca ver vityvi,<br />
rom yvelaferi, maincdamainc,<br />
gavrilovis vizitTan iyo misadagebuli.<br />
_ qarTulma specsamsaxurebma<br />
am scenaris Sesaxeb icodnen? _ es<br />
kiTxva Ss ministrisTvis xom ar<br />
dagisvamT, batono mamuka?<br />
_ diax, es kiTxva davsviT, magram<br />
es is Temaa, romelzedac saubrisgan<br />
delikaturad Sevikaveb Tavs.<br />
_ zemoxsenebul Sexvedraze aq-<br />
centebi arsebuli politikuri<br />
krizisidan gamosavalzec gakeTda?<br />
8 N25 (286) 23.07-5.08.2019 w.