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294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com<br />
dasusteba sWirdeba!~<br />
_ rasakvirvelia. sxvaTa Soris,<br />
pirveli kiTxvebi, romelic me<br />
davsvi, aseTi iyo: jer erTi, brZaneba<br />
vin gasca, _ es sazogadoebas<br />
gansakuTrebiT aintersebs da, meore,<br />
_ apirebs Tu ara gaxaria<br />
gadadgomas? orive kiTxvaze lakoniuri<br />
pasuxi iyo da Tqva, rom br-<br />
Zaneba man gasca da gadadgomas ar<br />
apirebs.<br />
_ am pasuxebma dagakmayofi-<br />
laT?<br />
_ ara. sxvaTa Soris, gansaxvavebuli<br />
politikuri gemovnebis miuxedavad,<br />
am Sexvedraze Ss ministris<br />
imave dRes an xval gadadgomis<br />
moTxovna erT eqspertsac ar<br />
dauyenebia da es am Sexvedris<br />
Zalian saintereso epizodia.<br />
_ ratom?<br />
_ es moTxovna im eqspertebsac<br />
ar dauyenebiaT, romlebsac „nacionaluri<br />
moZraobis” mimarT,<br />
rbilad rom vTqva, simpaTia aqvT,<br />
Tumca imis Taobaze, Tu ra nabijebis<br />
gadadgmas apirebs ministri,<br />
kiTxvebi daisva. gaxariam Tqva, rom<br />
misi gadadgoma-argadadgoma problema<br />
ar aris, magram unda, rom im<br />
kiTxvebze, romelic sazogadoebas<br />
damnaSaveebsa da SemsruleblebTan<br />
dakavSirebiT, aseve Zalis gadametebasa<br />
Tu orive mxridan provokaciebis<br />
monawileebis gamovlenaze<br />
aqvs, pasuxi gaeces da im<br />
dRes momxdari saerTo suraTis<br />
aRdgena moxdes. amis Semdeg sazogadoebis<br />
gadasawyvetia, Tu Cems<br />
wasvlas isev moiTxovs, me wavalo,<br />
_ gviTxra ministrma.<br />
_ am Sexvedraze gaxariam Tu dauSva<br />
albaToba, rom mitingis da-<br />
Slisas damiznebiT srola cal-<br />
keuli Zalovnebis provokacia iyo?<br />
_ rasakvirvelia, laparaki<br />
amazec iyo, anu Zalis gadacdoma<br />
namdvilad moxda da gamoZiebis<br />
procesSi nel-nela vavlenT, yvelaferi<br />
es rogor viTardebodao.<br />
_ anu calkeuli specrazmelebi<br />
ase imitom iqceodnen, rom is Se-<br />
degi damdgariyo, romelic dadga?<br />
_ am versias arsebobis ufleba<br />
aqvs da amis Taobaze manamdec vlaparakobdi.<br />
amdagvari araerTi RonisZieba<br />
maqvs nanaxi, zogierTSi ki<br />
monawileobac mimiRia da amitom<br />
Zalian kargad vici, analogiuri<br />
RonisZiebebis organizeba rogor<br />
xdeba. „nacionaluri moZraoba” mudmivad<br />
ambobs, rom iq aRelvebuli<br />
da araorganizebuli axalgazrdebis<br />
masa iyo, romelmac protesti<br />
Tavisi nebiT gamoTqva. nawilobriv,<br />
rasakvirvelia, marTlac ase iyo _<br />
parlamentTan, sanam Setakeba daiwyeboda,<br />
uamravi xalxi imyofeboda,<br />
maT Soris, Cemi Svilic, magram<br />
saqme isaa, rom am xalxis garda organizebuli<br />
Zalac iyo.<br />
_ amas ris safuZvelze ambobT?<br />
_ iseTi gaazrebuli qmedeba,<br />
rogoric policiis kordonze Setevaa,<br />
martivad ar xdeba. policielebi<br />
ga-oyavdaT da fizikur dapirispirebas<br />
aridebdnen _ yvelaferi<br />
es ki organizebuli jgufebis<br />
mier iyo gakeTebuli da amaSi<br />
darwmunebuli var. am jgufs, albaT,<br />
treningic hqonda gavlili.<br />
_ sad?<br />
_ treningi imas ar niSnavs, rom<br />
sadme banakSi waiyvano da ori kvira<br />
avarjiSo. magaliTad, SegiZlia,<br />
aT adamians sam saaTSi auxsna, ras<br />
niSnavs mitingSi monawileoba da am<br />
dros rogor unda moiqces.<br />
_ batono mamuka, simarTle<br />
`me erT rameSi davrwmundi: parlamentis SenobaSi Zalismieri SeWra<br />
igegmeboda, magram ara egzaltirebuli axalgazrdebis, rogorc<br />
`nacionaluri moZraoba~ da aseve zogierTi opoziciuri partia cdilobs,<br />
rom SemogvTavazos, aramed organizebuli jgufebis mier~<br />
giTxraT, cota davibeni, anu Tu<br />
garkveuli jgufi datreningebu-<br />
li iyo, policielebis gamoyvana,<br />
rom maTze fizikuri Zaladoba ar<br />
momxdariyo, ras emsaxureboda?<br />
_ jer erTi, es policielebisTvis<br />
demonstrireba iyo, Tqveni<br />
sawinaaRmdego araferi gvaqvs da<br />
xelisuflebas verCiTo. meore mizani<br />
ki kordonis moSoreba iyo.<br />
_ ramdenjerme „nacionaluri<br />
moZraoba” axseneT, arada, 20 iv-<br />
niss aqciaze yvela opoziciuri<br />
partia imyofeboda. amas garda,<br />
„nacmoZraoba”<br />
gaerTianebuli<br />
opoziciis wevria. mokled, ma-<br />
incdamainc yofil mmarTvel gun-<br />
dze ratom svamT maxvils?<br />
_ Zalian kargi kiTxvaa! „nacionalur<br />
moZraobaze” aqcents imitom<br />
vakeTeb, rom es saqarTveloSi<br />
yvelaze kargad organizebuli<br />
partiaa, romelic analogiuri<br />
moqmedebebisTvis mzad aris, miT<br />
umetes, rom Sesabamisi gamocdileba<br />
aqvs. am partias aqtiuri jgufebic<br />
hyavs, romelsac analogiur<br />
situaciaSi iyenebs.<br />
_ davuSvaT, asea, magram ar<br />
dagaviwydeT, rom gavrilovis<br />
winaaRmdeg Tavdapirvelad „evro-<br />
pulma saqarTvelom” aimaRla xma<br />
da am mxriv gansakuTrebiT elene<br />
xoStaria aqtiurobda.<br />
_ SeiZleba, „evropuli saqar-<br />
Tvelo” Canda, magram „nacionaluri<br />
moZraoba” moqmedebda.<br />
_ isini SeTanxmebulebi iyvnen?<br />
_ amas ver getyviT, magram piradad<br />
me aseTi STabeWdileba Semeqmna,<br />
rom „evropuli saqarTvelo”<br />
Canda, „nacionaluri moZraoba”<br />
ki moqmedebda. sxvaTa Soris, miaqcieT<br />
yuradReba, Tu vin mouwoda<br />
xalxs parlamentSi Sesvlisken.<br />
_ vin?<br />
_ nika meliam. sxvebic iyvnen,<br />
magram roca melias mowodeba movismine,<br />
anu is ki ara, roca jgufurad<br />
laparakobdnen, SevideT-ar-<br />
SevideTo, aramed roca calke iyo,<br />
Semeqmna STabeWdileba, rom is Tavisi<br />
jgufis wevrebs mimarTavda,<br />
aba, wavediTo, anu is im xalxs mimarTavda,<br />
romelzec icoda, rom<br />
gahyveboda.<br />
_ Tu aseTi detalebi Tqven<br />
SeamCnieT, wesiT, es Sss-sac unda<br />
SeemCnia, amitom sainteresoa, man<br />
SeWris mcdeloba Tavidanve ra-<br />
tom ar aRkveTa da viTareba kul-<br />
minaciamde ratom miiyvana?<br />
_ rogorc Cans, am situaciis<br />
mosagerieblad mzad ar iyo. sxva-<br />
Ta Soris, ministrmac Tqva, maqsimalurad<br />
vcdilobdiT, winamorbedebs<br />
ar davmsgavsebodiTo.<br />
_ opoziciis liderebTan mo-<br />
laparakebas amitomac cdilobda?<br />
_ molaparakebasTan dakavSirebiT<br />
cota ucnauri suraTi Seiqmna<br />
da es is Temaa, romelic bolomde<br />
ver CamovayalibeT. amasTan, am Sexvedris<br />
erT-erTma monawilem<br />
ikiTxa, ise ratom moxda, rom premierma<br />
Tqva, araferi iqnebao da uceb<br />
cremlsadeni yumbarebi isroleso?<br />
amaze ministrma gvipasuxa, molaparakebis<br />
procesis dros Seteva<br />
gverdidan daiwyoo, magram es<br />
videokadrebi ar gvinaxavs da aqedan<br />
gamomdinare, SemiZlia, mxolod<br />
ministris sityvebs daveyrdno.<br />
_ ise, batono mamuka, 2012 wl-<br />
idan moyolebuli, saxelmwifo<br />
gadatrialebis sababiT sisxlis<br />
samarTlis arTlis saqme araerTxel aRi-<br />
Zra, magram gamoZieba bolomde ar<br />
misula da igive „saburavebis saq-<br />
me” Tarozea Semodebuli. aqedan<br />
gamomdinare, ratom unda gvje-<br />
rodes, rom 20 ivniss saxelmwifo<br />
gadatrialeba realurad igegme-<br />
boda an is, rac moxda swored<br />
gamouZiebeli saqmeebis Sedegia?<br />
_ rasakvirvelia, mec zustad<br />
mand var. sxvaTa Soris, im dRes,<br />
roca gavrilovi gamoCnda, erT-er-<br />
Ti pirveli viyavi, romelmac vTqvi,<br />
irakli kobaxiZe baqoSive unda<br />
gadadges-meTqi. ise, naxevari saaTiT<br />
adre am asambleis dRis wesrigi<br />
nanaxi mqonda da vicodi, rom gavrilovis<br />
ki ara, generaluri mdivnis<br />
gamosvla igegmeboda. saRamos<br />
ki, roca yvelaferi es moxda, anu<br />
mitingis darbevis mere, vTqvi, me<br />
rom gaxarias adgilas viyo, gadavdgebodi-meTqi.<br />
mas mere ki, rac<br />
gaxaria Junalistebs Sexvda, pozicia<br />
Sevicvale da amis ar mrcxvenia,<br />
anu mimaCnia, rom gaxariam, romelmac<br />
pasuxismgebloba yvelaferze<br />
Tavad aiRo, gamoZiebis saqme<br />
bolomde unda miiyvanos, sazogadoebis<br />
winaSe SedegebiT wardges<br />
da sazogadoeba Tavad gadawyvets,<br />
is gadadgomis Rirsia Tu ara. sxvaTa<br />
Soris, amis Sesaxeb gaxariasac<br />
vuTxari.<br />
mokled, saqarTveloSi uamravi<br />
rezonansuli saqmea, romelic<br />
xmauriT dawyebula da bolos, pasuxismgebeli<br />
an mTavroba yofila,<br />
an _ viRac Zalovnebi, romlebsac<br />
ver gaigebT, vin arian. Sesabamisad,<br />
ar viciT, am saqmeebze pasuxi vis<br />
movTxovoT. am SemTxvevaSi ki, piradad<br />
me, rogorc moqalaqem, vici,<br />
rom pasuxi giorgi gaxarias unda<br />
movTxovo!<br />
Tu gainteresebT, am Sexvedraze<br />
raze vidaveT, getyviT _ es vadebi<br />
iyo, anu erT-erTma Cvenganma gaxarias<br />
kategoriulad mosTxova, es<br />
gamoZieba daus-uleblad ar unda<br />
gagrZeldes da uaxloes momaval-<br />
Si unda damTavrdeso, magram ministrma,<br />
ar moeswrebao. amitom Cven,<br />
yvelam Zalian kategoriulad mov-<br />
TxoveT, CvenTan Sexvedras azri ma-<br />
Sin eqneba, Tu saboloo vada gvecodineba,<br />
rodesac gamoZiebas wertili<br />
Tu ar daesmeva, logikuri<br />
konturebi mainc gamoCndebao. da<br />
kidev erTi: sazogadoeba mudmivad<br />
unda iyos informirebuli, gamo-<br />
ZiebasTan dakavSirebiT ra xdeba _<br />
SeiZleba, yvelaferi ver Tqvan,<br />
magram aucileblad unda Candes,<br />
procesi rogor midis. es gaiTvaliswines<br />
da imis fragmentebi, gamo-<br />
Zieba rogor mimdinareobs, Cndeba<br />
xolme.<br />
_ batono mamuka, sityva gagvi-<br />
grZelda, magram erT Temasac<br />
Sevexebi, miT umetes, rom specsam-<br />
saxurebis muSaobaSi, ase Tu ise,<br />
erkveviT: „gavrilovis Rames”,<br />
rogorc 20-21 ivnisis movlenebi<br />
moinaTla, giorgi gabunias skan-<br />
daluri eTeri moyva. SeiZleba,<br />
esec im scenaris nawili iyos,<br />
razec zemoT visaubreT?<br />
_ CemTvis Zalian seriozuli<br />
avtoritetia rusi politologi<br />
ilarionovi da am Temaze swored<br />
mis daskvnas daveyrdnobi. ilarionovma<br />
„amerikis xmas” Zalian mwvave<br />
inteviu misca, sadac xelisuflebac<br />
gaakritika da opoziciac.<br />
gansakuTrebiT ki gabunia gaakritika,<br />
Tumca am SemTxvevaSi, „gabunia”<br />
krebiTi terminia, anu ilarionovma<br />
Tqva, gavrilovi am savar-<br />
ZelSi, SesaZloa, SemTxveviT moxvda,<br />
magram „gabunia” specoperacia<br />
iyo, romelSic didi fuli daixarja<br />
da gabunia WanWiki iyoo. ilarionovma<br />
isic Tqva, ar vici, fuli<br />
vin aiRo, magram es specoperaciis<br />
klasikaa da usafrTxoebis Temaze<br />
Seqmnil saxelmZRvaneloebSi unda<br />
Sevideso. ilarionovma rusuli<br />
politikuri samzareulo Cemze<br />
ukeT icis da miniSneba iqiTken gaakeTa,<br />
rom gabunias ambavSi viRac<br />
iyo Careuli da amiT raRac TamaSi<br />
iTamaSes. es TamaSi ki ruseTis prezidents<br />
garkveuli demarSisTvis<br />
sWirdeboda. amiT putinma ramdenime<br />
kurdReli erTad mokla da<br />
marto keTili biZias roli ki ar<br />
iTamaSa, aramed, dumas Tavze daamxo,<br />
Seni azri aravis ainteresebso.<br />
zogadad, saqarTvelos sazogadoebis<br />
azri aravis ainteresebs da<br />
man „keTili biZias” roli dasavle-<br />
Tis winaSe iTamaSa, romelic SeSfoTebuli<br />
iyo, rom ruseTi saqar-<br />
Tvelos mimarT uaRresad negatiur<br />
nabijebs gadadgamda. amas aq<br />
myofi diplomatebi arc malavdnen<br />
da TavianTi qveynebidan Sesabamisi<br />
instruqciebic hqondaT miRebuli.<br />
_ bolos, batono mamuka, Tqve-<br />
ni azriT, qveyanaSi arsebuli po-<br />
litikuri krizisi rogor unda<br />
ganimuxtos?<br />
_ es politikuri krizisi jer<br />
ar ganimuxteba da gagrZeldeba,<br />
yovel SemTxvevaSi, Semodgomamde<br />
sxvadasxva tipisa da xarisxis daZabuloba<br />
iqneba, radgan Zalian seriozuli<br />
Zalebi arian dainteresebulni,<br />
rom samxreT kavkasiaSi, Sida<br />
politikis TvalsazrisiT, seriozuli<br />
sirTuleebi arsebobdes.<br />
amasTan, dRes ruseTs saqarTveloSi<br />
Tavisi gaZliereba ki ara,<br />
saqarTvelos dasusteba iseve sWirdeba,<br />
rogorc _ Cveni mezoblebis,<br />
raTa Tavi komfortulad igrZnos.<br />
N25 (286) 23.07-5.08.2019 w.<br />
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