Discourses of Rumi

72 V DISCOURSES OF RUMIthey really are. That is truly seeing and knowing.It astonishes me how some people say, “Howdo saints and lovers of God find love in the eternalworld beyond form, space and time? How canthey gain strength and help? How are they affectedby things without body or shape?”Is not all life, night and day, engaged with thesevery things? One person loves another person andderives help through that love. They find care andgrace, kindness and knowledge, happiness andsorrow. All these belong to that formless world.Moment by moment they receive benefits fromthese abstractions and are affected by them.However, this doesn’t surprise the doubters. Yetthey are amazed that saints can find love in theinvisible worlds, and derive help without form.Once there was a philosopher who denied thisreality. One day he became so sick he could notleave his bed, and his illness dragged on a longtime. A certain theologian went to visit him.“What are you seeking?” the theologian asked.“Health,” said the philosopher.“Tell me how this health is shaped, so that Imay find it for you.”