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N27 (248) 14.08-4.09.2018 w.<br />
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com<br />
warsulis gayalbeba<br />
`TviT ivane javaxiSvilis cnobili naSromic ki "saqarTvelosa da ruseTis<br />
urTierToba me-18 saukuneSi", faqtobrivad, akrZaluli iyo. ase rom,<br />
xsenebul sakiTxze realuri wera ar SeiZleboda - es xdeboda politikuri<br />
mosazrebebidan gamomdinare. dRes ukve SesaZlebelia am urTierTobebze<br />
saubari da ukve araerTi naSromi arsebobs, sadac gaSuqebulia is faqtebi<br />
da is realobebi, romelic am urTierTobebSi arsebobda, miCqmaluli iyo<br />
da ar gaxldaT naCvenebi. bunebrivia, ar iyo naCvenebi imitom, rom orive<br />
qveyana unda warmoCeniliyo imisgan gansxvavebuli, rogoric is iyo. ruseTi<br />
unda warmoCeniliyo dadebiTad. arsebobda Teoria, rom "ruseTTan<br />
SeerTeba iyo mcire boroteba" - boroteba, magram mcire imasTan<br />
SedarebiT, rac Cven mogveloda. faqtebis garkveuli nawili, ubralod, ar<br />
iyo sazogadoebisTvis cnobili - ar ambobdnen, raTa is koncefcia,<br />
romelic SemuSavda, darCeniliyo. magaliTad, 1921 wels saqarTveloSi<br />
sabWoTa kavSiris xelisuflebis damyareba iyo bedniereba - 70 wlis<br />
manZilze ase gvaswavlidnen. sawinaaRmdegos wera ar SeiZleboda - amas<br />
politikuri reJimi aranairad dauSvebda~<br />
datovo. mas axlavs recenziac da<br />
Tu saTanado dones ar Seesabameba,<br />
ar beWdaven. magram, gamomdinare<br />
iqidan, rom kerZo pirs SeuZlia,<br />
rac surs is daweros da dabeWdos,<br />
amis kontroli ar xdeba. erTader-<br />
Ti is kontroldeba, rom iyos<br />
samecniero recenzireba, anu viRac<br />
adamianma dawera da amas upasuxo,<br />
raTa sazogadoebam gaigos, rom is<br />
arasworia. aqac arsebobs erTi<br />
problema _ bevri imdenad fantastikur<br />
raRacebs wers, rom amis<br />
mecnieruli kritikisTvis masze<br />
orjer meti unda dawero da msgavsi<br />
nabijebi bevr sirTulesTan asocirdeba.<br />
warmoidgineT, didxans<br />
nafiqr, SeTxzul publikaciebze<br />
unda wero da amtkico misi absurduloba.<br />
ra Tqma unda, es rTuli<br />
momentia. rTulia kontroli.<br />
mniSvnelovania, rom TviTon sazogadoebis<br />
ganaTlebis, codnis<br />
donem aiwios. is unda xvdebodes,<br />
ra aris absurdi da sisulele.<br />
wignebs aRaravin daeZebs. arsebobs<br />
araerTi satelevizio gadacema,<br />
sadac mezRapreebi mohyavT da isini<br />
zRaprebs hyvebian. rodesac am<br />
informaciebs adamiani televiziiT<br />
iRebs, rTulia, mas auxsna, rom<br />
rasac televiziiT ismens, sruliad<br />
absurdia. rTulia imitom, rom<br />
am adamianebs mainc aqvT ndoba imisa,<br />
rom vinc televiziiT saubrobs,<br />
is seriozulia da aucileblad<br />
_ sando. usmenen, ismenen logikur<br />
saubrebs. es yvelaferi keTdeba<br />
imitom, rom realur istoriaze<br />
ukeT aucileblad gaiyideba<br />
raRac mogonili, sensaciuri da<br />
SeTxzuli.<br />
_ saqarTvelos istoriis Sesaxeb<br />
araerTi erovnebis warmomad-<br />
genels uweria. warsulSi rom ga-<br />
davinacvloT, rogori iyo xolme<br />
maTi poziciebi faqtebTan dakav-<br />
SirebiT?<br />
_ ucxoelebi weren saqarTvelos<br />
istoriaze da Zalian bevri<br />
wers imaze ukeT, vidre qarTveli<br />
istorikosi dawerda. araerTi wers<br />
obieqturad. araerT SemTxvevaSi<br />
xdeba is, rom ucxo qveynis warmomadgeneli<br />
faqtebis sxvanair interpretacias<br />
axdens, raRacebs<br />
ugulebelyofs da warmoaCens mas<br />
ise, rogorc surs. amaze xdeba reagireba<br />
imitom, rom is aris samecniero<br />
naSromi, masze yovelTvis<br />
iwereboda recenziebi da dResac<br />
iwereba, rom sadRac aseTi wigni<br />
gamovida da masSi esa da es Secdomebia<br />
daSvebuli. promleba aris<br />
is, rom Cven vwerT qarTul enaze<br />
da vwerT Sida moxmarebisTvis. es<br />
rom davweroT ucxo enaze da saer-<br />
TaSoriso moxmarebisTvis gavitanoT,<br />
amas finansuri xelSewyoba<br />
dasWirdeba. es, ra Tqma unda, problemaa.<br />
amas sWirdeba saxelmwifoebrivi<br />
midgoma. istorikosma ki Sei-<br />
Zleba daweros recenzia romelime<br />
konkretul qveyanaSi gamosul<br />
wignze, magram Semdeg amas sWirdeba<br />
Targmna da sazogadoebaSi gavrceleba.<br />
mecnierebs, samwuxarod,<br />
ZiriTadad, ar aqvT amis saSualeba.<br />
am mxriv Sesabamisi uwyebebi<br />
unda iyos mondomebuli, raTa im<br />
araswor informaciebs, rac iwereba<br />
da ibeWdeba saqarTvelos warsulis<br />
Sesaxeb, adekvaturi pasuxebi<br />
gaeces. da es xdebodes ara qarTul<br />
enaze da saqarTveloSi, aramed<br />
im enaze da im qveyanaSi, sadac<br />
es publikacia gamoqveynda.<br />
_ TviTon qarTvel istoriko-<br />
sebs Tu aqvT xolme „ambiciebi”,<br />
rom araswori informaciebis gam-<br />
avrceleblebs daupirispirdnen?<br />
_ kamaTs yovelTvis aqvs azri,<br />
igive saerTaSoriso konferenciebis<br />
farglebSi da asec xdeba. vimeoreb:<br />
recenziebic aqtiurad iwereba<br />
im wignebze, romlebic unda<br />
gamovides. cxadia, im SemTxvevaSi,<br />
Tuki am informaciebma Cvenamde<br />
moaRwia. zogjer, bunebrivia, aris<br />
SemTxvevebi, rodesac sadme raRac<br />
iwereba, magram Cven amis Sesaxeb informacias<br />
ar vflobT. ki batono,<br />
zemoxsenebul arasasiamovno faqtebze<br />
xdeba reagireba im SesaZleblobebis<br />
farglebSi, rac qarTvel<br />
istorikosebs gvaqvs.<br />
_ sazogadoebis mimarT ra gav-<br />
lenazea orientirebuli „is-<br />
toriis falsificireba”?<br />
_ Tu Cven vgulisxmobT ucxoel<br />
mecnierebs, vityvi, rom maT aqvT<br />
sakuTari koncefcia da isini am<br />
koncefciebis farglebSi moqmedeben.<br />
aq adgili aqvs samecniero kamaTs<br />
da naklebad aris saubari<br />
imaze, rom viRacis damcirebas an<br />
konkretuli faqtebis gaufasurebas<br />
cdiloben. amaze xdeba reagireba<br />
da Sesabamis konferenciebze<br />
afiSireba. es ar niSnavs, rom konkretuli<br />
avtorebi poziciebs cvlian.<br />
ubralod, sazogadoebas miewodeba<br />
meore mosazrebac, rom am<br />
pirovnebam ki dawera konkretuli<br />
xedviT, magram arsebobs meore mosazrebac,<br />
rom raRac mocemuloba<br />
iyo sxvanairad. amis Semdeg, Tvi-<br />
Ton sazogadoeba airCevs, romeli<br />
informacia aris misTvis sarwmuno.<br />
_ Sesabamis WrilSi saqarTve-<br />
lo-ruseTis xangrZliv saerTo<br />
istoriaze ras gvetyviT?<br />
_ saqarTvelo-ruseTis istoriaSi<br />
problema is iyo, rom sabWoTa<br />
periodSi arsebuli istoriis pirdapiri<br />
aRwera ar SeiZleboda. gasagebia,<br />
rom politikuri mosazrebebis<br />
gamo. TviT ivane javaxiSvilis<br />
cnobili naSromic ki „saqarTvelosa<br />
da ruseTis urTierToba<br />
me-18 saukuneSi”, faqtobrivad,<br />
akrZaluli iyo. ase rom, xsenebul<br />
sakiTxze realuri wera ar SeiZleboda<br />
_ es xdeboda politikuri mosazrebebidan<br />
gamomdinare. dRes<br />
ukve SesaZlebelia am urTierTobebze<br />
saubari da ukve araerTi naSromi<br />
arsebobs, sadac gaSuqebulia<br />
is faqtebi da is realobebi, romelic<br />
am urTierTobebSi arsebobda,<br />
miCqmaluli iyo da ar gaxldaT<br />
naCvenebi. bunebrivia, ar iyo naCvenebi<br />
imitom, rom orive qveyana<br />
unda warmoCeniliyo imisgan gansxvavebuli,<br />
rogoric is iyo. ruseTi<br />
unda warmoCeniliyo dadebiTad.<br />
arsebobda Teoria, rom „ruseTTan<br />
SeerTeba iyo mcire boroteba” _<br />
boroteba, magram mcire imasTan<br />
SedarebiT, rac Cven mogveloda.<br />
faqtebis garkveuli nawili, ubralod,<br />
ar iyo sazogadoebisTvis<br />
cnobili _ ar ambobdnen, raTa is<br />
koncefcia, romelic SemuSavda,<br />
darCeniliyo. magaliTad, 1921<br />
wels saqarTveloSi sabWoTa kav-<br />
Siris xelisuflebis damyareba iyo<br />
bedniereba _ 70 wlis manZilze ase<br />
gvaswavlidnen. sawinaaRmdegos wera<br />
ar SeiZleboda _ amas politikuri<br />
reJimi aranairad dauSvebda.<br />
dResdReobiT ukve msgavsi problemebi<br />
aRar arsebobs da bolo<br />
20-25 welia, iwereba gacilebiT<br />
kargi, namdvili istoria _ is ambebi,<br />
rac realurad arsebobda. vimeoreb:<br />
saqarTvelo-ruseTis urTierTobebi<br />
ganixileboda politikuri<br />
mosazrebebis WrilSi _ ver<br />
vsaubrobdiT da ver vwerdiT ise,<br />
rogorc saWiro iyo. universitetis<br />
erT-erTma profesorma sadisertacio<br />
naSromi rom daicva,<br />
saTaurSi ewera: „saqarTvelo-ruseTis<br />
urTierToba” da SeniSvna<br />
misces, rom unda wereboda Semdegnairad:<br />
„ruseT-saqarTvelos ur-<br />
`SesaZloa, konkretuli publikaciis avtors<br />
"keTili" ganzraxva hqondes; surdes, masTan<br />
daaxloebuli garemoebebi da faqtebi kargad<br />
warmoaCinos, magram saqarTvelos didi da<br />
xangrZlivi istoria aqvs. qalbatonma mariam<br />
lorTqifaniZem Tqva, rom Cven imdenad didi<br />
istoria gvaqvs, mas ar sWirdeba Selamazeba; ar<br />
sWirdeba xelovnurad gamogoneba, rom<br />
kacobriobis centri saqarTveloSia da yvelaferi<br />
masze gadis. mesmis, maTi survili aris, rom<br />
ganadidon sakuTari qveyana, magram es imdenad<br />
xelovnuri da ararealuri xdeba xolme, rom,<br />
xSirad, sasaciloc kia - nebismieri adamiani, vinc<br />
mas waikiTxavs, imedi gaucruvdeba da dainaxavs,<br />
rom "zRaprebi" iwereba~<br />
TierToba”. ase rom, cxadia, im periodSi<br />
SeuZlebeli iyo realobis<br />
aRwera.<br />
_ ramdenad sandoa saqarTve-<br />
los is istoria, romelic dRes<br />
iwereba?<br />
_ zogadad, istoria gacilebiT<br />
rTuli mecnierebaa gamomdinare<br />
iqidan, rom is exeba kacobriobis<br />
warsuls. Cven istoria viciT im<br />
saxiTac, ra saxiTac is wyaroebma<br />
Semogvinaxa. Teoriulad, SeiZleba<br />
davuSvaT, rom is iseTi ar iyo,<br />
rogorc dRes Cven warmogvidgenia,<br />
magram msoflioSia ase, rom Cven<br />
vwerT im wyaroebis mixedviT, rac<br />
Cven gvaqvs _ kritikuli analizisa<br />
da arsebuli masalebis safuZvelze.<br />
met-naklebad, iwereba is,<br />
rasac dRes mecnierebi weren (ar<br />
vgulisxmob moyvarulebs), ase Tu<br />
ise, yvela informacia realuria.<br />
bunebrivia, azrTa sxvadasxvaobebi<br />
yvela sakiTxis irgvliv arsebobs.<br />
kacobrioba, TavisTavad, ar aris<br />
erTgvarovani. sxvadasxva poziciis<br />
arseboba da urTierTkamaTi istoriisTvis<br />
bunebrivi faqtoria.<br />
aq saubaria imaze, rom avtorma ar<br />
unda moigonos raRacebi. rac weria,<br />
is unda gaanalizdes _ Tu is mas<br />
uaryofs, unda uaryos argumentirebulad,<br />
Tumca es sando informacia<br />
mcirea im „zRva” masala-<br />
Si, romelic sazogadoebas miewodeba.<br />
amis gamo is ikargeba.<br />
ra aris istoria?<br />
• warsuli epoqa;<br />
• arsebuli adamianebi;<br />
• arsebuli mocemulobebi;<br />
• warsuli tradiciebi;<br />
• winapiroba awmyosTvis.<br />
ra moxdeba im SemTxvevaSi, Tu<br />
nebismieri msurveli „istoriis<br />
falsificirebas” Seecdeba?<br />
• epoqa aRar iqneba saintereso;<br />
• daikargebian adamianebi;<br />
• warsuli mocemulobebi aRar<br />
iqneba sando;<br />
• eWvqveS dadgeba arsebuli<br />
tradiciebi;<br />
• daikargeba awmyo da safrTxe<br />
Seeqmneba momavals.<br />
qarTveli istorikosis, vaxtang<br />
gurulis SefasebiT:<br />
„saqarTvelos istoriis gayalbebiT<br />
dRes veravis gaakvirveb. istorias<br />
ayalbebs<br />
yvela: profesionali da moyvaruli,<br />
mcodne da sruliad umecari.<br />
metwilad istoria yalbdeba<br />
romelime politikuri Zalis<br />
dakveTiT, xanac _ dakveTis gareSe.<br />
mavansa da mavans uCndeba Sinagani<br />
miswrafeba, waivarjiSos romelime<br />
erisa da saxelmwifos istoriaSi,<br />
Tavisi „aRmoCenebiT” miipyros sazogadoebis<br />
yuradReba. sabolood,<br />
aseTi kalmosnebi, nebsiT Tu uneblieT,<br />
mainc romelime politikuri<br />
Zalis wisqvilze asxamen<br />
wyals da istoriis gayalbebis<br />
saZrax saqmes emsaxurebian”.<br />
ase Tu ise, profesionalebi da<br />
moyvarulebi nebismier sferoSi<br />
arsebobdnen, arseboben da aucileblad<br />
iarsebeben. maSin, roca saqme<br />
warsuls exeba, sasicocxlod mniSvnelovania,<br />
am warsulis garSemo<br />
arsebobdnen adamianebi, romlebsac<br />
aqvT gamocdileba; romelTac<br />
aqvT unari da resursi, gamoikvlion,<br />
Seadaron, gaaanalizon, Seajamon<br />
da waradginon sazogadoebis<br />
winaSe. gvaswavlidnen da dResac<br />
aswavlian, rom mematiane hqvia<br />
adamians, romelic aRwers warsuls.<br />
rodesac mematiane gqvia da<br />
gaqvs es statusi, ar unda dauSva,<br />
rom adamianebs imedebi gaucruo.<br />
sazogadoeba yvelaze naTlad xedavs<br />
crusa da gamogonils. im Sem-<br />
TxvevaSi, Tuki is erTxel SeamCnevs<br />
cdomilebas, dakargavs ndobas. dakargavs<br />
ndobas da safrTxe Seeqmneba<br />
momavals.<br />
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