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N27 (248) 14.08-4.09.2018 w.<br />

294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com<br />

warsulis gayalbeba<br />

`TviT ivane javaxiSvilis cnobili naSromic ki "saqarTvelosa da ruseTis<br />

urTierToba me-18 saukuneSi", faqtobrivad, akrZaluli iyo. ase rom,<br />

xsenebul sakiTxze realuri wera ar SeiZleboda - es xdeboda politikuri<br />

mosazrebebidan gamomdinare. dRes ukve SesaZlebelia am urTierTobebze<br />

saubari da ukve araerTi naSromi arsebobs, sadac gaSuqebulia is faqtebi<br />

da is realobebi, romelic am urTierTobebSi arsebobda, miCqmaluli iyo<br />

da ar gaxldaT naCvenebi. bunebrivia, ar iyo naCvenebi imitom, rom orive<br />

qveyana unda warmoCeniliyo imisgan gansxvavebuli, rogoric is iyo. ruseTi<br />

unda warmoCeniliyo dadebiTad. arsebobda Teoria, rom "ruseTTan<br />

SeerTeba iyo mcire boroteba" - boroteba, magram mcire imasTan<br />

SedarebiT, rac Cven mogveloda. faqtebis garkveuli nawili, ubralod, ar<br />

iyo sazogadoebisTvis cnobili - ar ambobdnen, raTa is koncefcia,<br />

romelic SemuSavda, darCeniliyo. magaliTad, 1921 wels saqarTveloSi<br />

sabWoTa kavSiris xelisuflebis damyareba iyo bedniereba - 70 wlis<br />

manZilze ase gvaswavlidnen. sawinaaRmdegos wera ar SeiZleboda - amas<br />

politikuri reJimi aranairad dauSvebda~<br />

datovo. mas axlavs recenziac da<br />

Tu saTanado dones ar Seesabameba,<br />

ar beWdaven. magram, gamomdinare<br />

iqidan, rom kerZo pirs SeuZlia,<br />

rac surs is daweros da dabeWdos,<br />

amis kontroli ar xdeba. erTader-<br />

Ti is kontroldeba, rom iyos<br />

samecniero recenzireba, anu viRac<br />

adamianma dawera da amas upasuxo,<br />

raTa sazogadoebam gaigos, rom is<br />

arasworia. aqac arsebobs erTi<br />

problema _ bevri imdenad fantastikur<br />

raRacebs wers, rom amis<br />

mecnieruli kritikisTvis masze<br />

orjer meti unda dawero da msgavsi<br />

nabijebi bevr sirTulesTan asocirdeba.<br />

warmoidgineT, didxans<br />

nafiqr, SeTxzul publikaciebze<br />

unda wero da amtkico misi absurduloba.<br />

ra Tqma unda, es rTuli<br />

momentia. rTulia kontroli.<br />

mniSvnelovania, rom TviTon sazogadoebis<br />

ganaTlebis, codnis<br />

donem aiwios. is unda xvdebodes,<br />

ra aris absurdi da sisulele.<br />

wignebs aRaravin daeZebs. arsebobs<br />

araerTi satelevizio gadacema,<br />

sadac mezRapreebi mohyavT da isini<br />

zRaprebs hyvebian. rodesac am<br />

informaciebs adamiani televiziiT<br />

iRebs, rTulia, mas auxsna, rom<br />

rasac televiziiT ismens, sruliad<br />

absurdia. rTulia imitom, rom<br />

am adamianebs mainc aqvT ndoba imisa,<br />

rom vinc televiziiT saubrobs,<br />

is seriozulia da aucileblad<br />

_ sando. usmenen, ismenen logikur<br />

saubrebs. es yvelaferi keTdeba<br />

imitom, rom realur istoriaze<br />

ukeT aucileblad gaiyideba<br />

raRac mogonili, sensaciuri da<br />

SeTxzuli.<br />

_ saqarTvelos istoriis Sesaxeb<br />

araerTi erovnebis warmomad-<br />

genels uweria. warsulSi rom ga-<br />

davinacvloT, rogori iyo xolme<br />

maTi poziciebi faqtebTan dakav-<br />

SirebiT?<br />

_ ucxoelebi weren saqarTvelos<br />

istoriaze da Zalian bevri<br />

wers imaze ukeT, vidre qarTveli<br />

istorikosi dawerda. araerTi wers<br />

obieqturad. araerT SemTxvevaSi<br />

xdeba is, rom ucxo qveynis warmomadgeneli<br />

faqtebis sxvanair interpretacias<br />

axdens, raRacebs<br />

ugulebelyofs da warmoaCens mas<br />

ise, rogorc surs. amaze xdeba reagireba<br />

imitom, rom is aris samecniero<br />

naSromi, masze yovelTvis<br />

iwereboda recenziebi da dResac<br />

iwereba, rom sadRac aseTi wigni<br />

gamovida da masSi esa da es Secdomebia<br />

daSvebuli. promleba aris<br />

is, rom Cven vwerT qarTul enaze<br />

da vwerT Sida moxmarebisTvis. es<br />

rom davweroT ucxo enaze da saer-<br />

TaSoriso moxmarebisTvis gavitanoT,<br />

amas finansuri xelSewyoba<br />

dasWirdeba. es, ra Tqma unda, problemaa.<br />

amas sWirdeba saxelmwifoebrivi<br />

midgoma. istorikosma ki Sei-<br />

Zleba daweros recenzia romelime<br />

konkretul qveyanaSi gamosul<br />

wignze, magram Semdeg amas sWirdeba<br />

Targmna da sazogadoebaSi gavrceleba.<br />

mecnierebs, samwuxarod,<br />

ZiriTadad, ar aqvT amis saSualeba.<br />

am mxriv Sesabamisi uwyebebi<br />

unda iyos mondomebuli, raTa im<br />

araswor informaciebs, rac iwereba<br />

da ibeWdeba saqarTvelos warsulis<br />

Sesaxeb, adekvaturi pasuxebi<br />

gaeces. da es xdebodes ara qarTul<br />

enaze da saqarTveloSi, aramed<br />

im enaze da im qveyanaSi, sadac<br />

es publikacia gamoqveynda.<br />

_ TviTon qarTvel istoriko-<br />

sebs Tu aqvT xolme „ambiciebi”,<br />

rom araswori informaciebis gam-<br />

avrceleblebs daupirispirdnen?<br />

_ kamaTs yovelTvis aqvs azri,<br />

igive saerTaSoriso konferenciebis<br />

farglebSi da asec xdeba. vimeoreb:<br />

recenziebic aqtiurad iwereba<br />

im wignebze, romlebic unda<br />

gamovides. cxadia, im SemTxvevaSi,<br />

Tuki am informaciebma Cvenamde<br />

moaRwia. zogjer, bunebrivia, aris<br />

SemTxvevebi, rodesac sadme raRac<br />

iwereba, magram Cven amis Sesaxeb informacias<br />

ar vflobT. ki batono,<br />

zemoxsenebul arasasiamovno faqtebze<br />

xdeba reagireba im SesaZleblobebis<br />

farglebSi, rac qarTvel<br />

istorikosebs gvaqvs.<br />

_ sazogadoebis mimarT ra gav-<br />

lenazea orientirebuli „is-<br />

toriis falsificireba”?<br />

_ Tu Cven vgulisxmobT ucxoel<br />

mecnierebs, vityvi, rom maT aqvT<br />

sakuTari koncefcia da isini am<br />

koncefciebis farglebSi moqmedeben.<br />

aq adgili aqvs samecniero kamaTs<br />

da naklebad aris saubari<br />

imaze, rom viRacis damcirebas an<br />

konkretuli faqtebis gaufasurebas<br />

cdiloben. amaze xdeba reagireba<br />

da Sesabamis konferenciebze<br />

afiSireba. es ar niSnavs, rom konkretuli<br />

avtorebi poziciebs cvlian.<br />

ubralod, sazogadoebas miewodeba<br />

meore mosazrebac, rom am<br />

pirovnebam ki dawera konkretuli<br />

xedviT, magram arsebobs meore mosazrebac,<br />

rom raRac mocemuloba<br />

iyo sxvanairad. amis Semdeg, Tvi-<br />

Ton sazogadoeba airCevs, romeli<br />

informacia aris misTvis sarwmuno.<br />

_ Sesabamis WrilSi saqarTve-<br />

lo-ruseTis xangrZliv saerTo<br />

istoriaze ras gvetyviT?<br />

_ saqarTvelo-ruseTis istoriaSi<br />

problema is iyo, rom sabWoTa<br />

periodSi arsebuli istoriis pirdapiri<br />

aRwera ar SeiZleboda. gasagebia,<br />

rom politikuri mosazrebebis<br />

gamo. TviT ivane javaxiSvilis<br />

cnobili naSromic ki „saqarTvelosa<br />

da ruseTis urTierToba<br />

me-18 saukuneSi”, faqtobrivad,<br />

akrZaluli iyo. ase rom, xsenebul<br />

sakiTxze realuri wera ar SeiZleboda<br />

_ es xdeboda politikuri mosazrebebidan<br />

gamomdinare. dRes<br />

ukve SesaZlebelia am urTierTobebze<br />

saubari da ukve araerTi naSromi<br />

arsebobs, sadac gaSuqebulia<br />

is faqtebi da is realobebi, romelic<br />

am urTierTobebSi arsebobda,<br />

miCqmaluli iyo da ar gaxldaT<br />

naCvenebi. bunebrivia, ar iyo naCvenebi<br />

imitom, rom orive qveyana<br />

unda warmoCeniliyo imisgan gansxvavebuli,<br />

rogoric is iyo. ruseTi<br />

unda warmoCeniliyo dadebiTad.<br />

arsebobda Teoria, rom „ruseTTan<br />

SeerTeba iyo mcire boroteba” _<br />

boroteba, magram mcire imasTan<br />

SedarebiT, rac Cven mogveloda.<br />

faqtebis garkveuli nawili, ubralod,<br />

ar iyo sazogadoebisTvis<br />

cnobili _ ar ambobdnen, raTa is<br />

koncefcia, romelic SemuSavda,<br />

darCeniliyo. magaliTad, 1921<br />

wels saqarTveloSi sabWoTa kav-<br />

Siris xelisuflebis damyareba iyo<br />

bedniereba _ 70 wlis manZilze ase<br />

gvaswavlidnen. sawinaaRmdegos wera<br />

ar SeiZleboda _ amas politikuri<br />

reJimi aranairad dauSvebda.<br />

dResdReobiT ukve msgavsi problemebi<br />

aRar arsebobs da bolo<br />

20-25 welia, iwereba gacilebiT<br />

kargi, namdvili istoria _ is ambebi,<br />

rac realurad arsebobda. vimeoreb:<br />

saqarTvelo-ruseTis urTierTobebi<br />

ganixileboda politikuri<br />

mosazrebebis WrilSi _ ver<br />

vsaubrobdiT da ver vwerdiT ise,<br />

rogorc saWiro iyo. universitetis<br />

erT-erTma profesorma sadisertacio<br />

naSromi rom daicva,<br />

saTaurSi ewera: „saqarTvelo-ruseTis<br />

urTierToba” da SeniSvna<br />

misces, rom unda wereboda Semdegnairad:<br />

„ruseT-saqarTvelos ur-<br />

`SesaZloa, konkretuli publikaciis avtors<br />

"keTili" ganzraxva hqondes; surdes, masTan<br />

daaxloebuli garemoebebi da faqtebi kargad<br />

warmoaCinos, magram saqarTvelos didi da<br />

xangrZlivi istoria aqvs. qalbatonma mariam<br />

lorTqifaniZem Tqva, rom Cven imdenad didi<br />

istoria gvaqvs, mas ar sWirdeba Selamazeba; ar<br />

sWirdeba xelovnurad gamogoneba, rom<br />

kacobriobis centri saqarTveloSia da yvelaferi<br />

masze gadis. mesmis, maTi survili aris, rom<br />

ganadidon sakuTari qveyana, magram es imdenad<br />

xelovnuri da ararealuri xdeba xolme, rom,<br />

xSirad, sasaciloc kia - nebismieri adamiani, vinc<br />

mas waikiTxavs, imedi gaucruvdeba da dainaxavs,<br />

rom "zRaprebi" iwereba~<br />

TierToba”. ase rom, cxadia, im periodSi<br />

SeuZlebeli iyo realobis<br />

aRwera.<br />

_ ramdenad sandoa saqarTve-<br />

los is istoria, romelic dRes<br />

iwereba?<br />

_ zogadad, istoria gacilebiT<br />

rTuli mecnierebaa gamomdinare<br />

iqidan, rom is exeba kacobriobis<br />

warsuls. Cven istoria viciT im<br />

saxiTac, ra saxiTac is wyaroebma<br />

Semogvinaxa. Teoriulad, SeiZleba<br />

davuSvaT, rom is iseTi ar iyo,<br />

rogorc dRes Cven warmogvidgenia,<br />

magram msoflioSia ase, rom Cven<br />

vwerT im wyaroebis mixedviT, rac<br />

Cven gvaqvs _ kritikuli analizisa<br />

da arsebuli masalebis safuZvelze.<br />

met-naklebad, iwereba is,<br />

rasac dRes mecnierebi weren (ar<br />

vgulisxmob moyvarulebs), ase Tu<br />

ise, yvela informacia realuria.<br />

bunebrivia, azrTa sxvadasxvaobebi<br />

yvela sakiTxis irgvliv arsebobs.<br />

kacobrioba, TavisTavad, ar aris<br />

erTgvarovani. sxvadasxva poziciis<br />

arseboba da urTierTkamaTi istoriisTvis<br />

bunebrivi faqtoria.<br />

aq saubaria imaze, rom avtorma ar<br />

unda moigonos raRacebi. rac weria,<br />

is unda gaanalizdes _ Tu is mas<br />

uaryofs, unda uaryos argumentirebulad,<br />

Tumca es sando informacia<br />

mcirea im „zRva” masala-<br />

Si, romelic sazogadoebas miewodeba.<br />

amis gamo is ikargeba.<br />

ra aris istoria?<br />

• warsuli epoqa;<br />

• arsebuli adamianebi;<br />

• arsebuli mocemulobebi;<br />

• warsuli tradiciebi;<br />

• winapiroba awmyosTvis.<br />

ra moxdeba im SemTxvevaSi, Tu<br />

nebismieri msurveli „istoriis<br />

falsificirebas” Seecdeba?<br />

• epoqa aRar iqneba saintereso;<br />

• daikargebian adamianebi;<br />

• warsuli mocemulobebi aRar<br />

iqneba sando;<br />

• eWvqveS dadgeba arsebuli<br />

tradiciebi;<br />

• daikargeba awmyo da safrTxe<br />

Seeqmneba momavals.<br />

qarTveli istorikosis, vaxtang<br />

gurulis SefasebiT:<br />

„saqarTvelos istoriis gayalbebiT<br />

dRes veravis gaakvirveb. istorias<br />

ayalbebs<br />

yvela: profesionali da moyvaruli,<br />

mcodne da sruliad umecari.<br />

metwilad istoria yalbdeba<br />

romelime politikuri Zalis<br />

dakveTiT, xanac _ dakveTis gareSe.<br />

mavansa da mavans uCndeba Sinagani<br />

miswrafeba, waivarjiSos romelime<br />

erisa da saxelmwifos istoriaSi,<br />

Tavisi „aRmoCenebiT” miipyros sazogadoebis<br />

yuradReba. sabolood,<br />

aseTi kalmosnebi, nebsiT Tu uneblieT,<br />

mainc romelime politikuri<br />

Zalis wisqvilze asxamen<br />

wyals da istoriis gayalbebis<br />

saZrax saqmes emsaxurebian”.<br />

ase Tu ise, profesionalebi da<br />

moyvarulebi nebismier sferoSi<br />

arsebobdnen, arseboben da aucileblad<br />

iarsebeben. maSin, roca saqme<br />

warsuls exeba, sasicocxlod mniSvnelovania,<br />

am warsulis garSemo<br />

arsebobdnen adamianebi, romlebsac<br />

aqvT gamocdileba; romelTac<br />

aqvT unari da resursi, gamoikvlion,<br />

Seadaron, gaaanalizon, Seajamon<br />

da waradginon sazogadoebis<br />

winaSe. gvaswavlidnen da dResac<br />

aswavlian, rom mematiane hqvia<br />

adamians, romelic aRwers warsuls.<br />

rodesac mematiane gqvia da<br />

gaqvs es statusi, ar unda dauSva,<br />

rom adamianebs imedebi gaucruo.<br />

sazogadoeba yvelaze naTlad xedavs<br />

crusa da gamogonils. im Sem-<br />

TxvevaSi, Tuki is erTxel SeamCnevs<br />

cdomilebas, dakargavs ndobas. dakargavs<br />

ndobas da safrTxe Seeqmneba<br />

momavals.<br />

27

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