Preface - Electronic Poetry Center

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From: Ron Silliman Subject: Re: wild blue yonder I really appreciate Jeff Hansen’s argument for exploration between formal (in the strictest sense) boundaries rather than, say, beyond them, even if I don’t know (understand?) whether or not that sentiment might be shared by others. It raises a lot of interesting questions for reading and interpretation and seems to me a terrific road into a lot of work. I had not meant my comments to be strictly taken as referring to an "emerging" generation (one that stretches out from people who are my own age, more or less, a la Selby and Basinski, to people in their early 20s), but I often hope to see my posts here as a prod to comment, and here Jeff takes that phrase in very useful direction. Here is a for instance: Peter Gizzi is a superb and subtle craftsperson, so much so that his use of Spicer and the serial poem turn into a demonstration of the Esthetic as such, a result that strikes me as antithetical to Spicer’s almost Celine-esque anti-aesthetic tendencies. Gizzi’s Spicer seems closer to Bonnefoy than Celine or even Prevert. Clearly Gizzi is extending the mode of the serial poem in a direction unanticipated by Spicer, creating in some sense a different Spicer than the one I have read (where in fact I often find a horror of the aesthetic). Is this the same or different from the way in which (to pick a pseudoparallel) John Taggart and Ronald Johnson might be said to have read a different Zukofsky than the one read by Bernstein and Andrews? I agree with Hansen that the idea of extending "innovation" to predictable logical conclusions ("typing" as someone once said of Kerouac’s form) is of little interest, especially 80 years after zaum first demonstrated a range of possibility there. Similarly, all sound poetry "says the same thing" and it says it over and over. Where formal innovation typically occurs (I’m making a wildly broad generalization here) is when the society underlying a given mode of verse production changes so that new writers (younger or otherwise–Olson was a late bloomer and WCW wrote Spring & All in his late 30s) bring in newly recognized territories and modes of the social into their work as form. I don’t want to reduce this to some crude variation of base/superstructure economic determinism, but there is a constant and dynamic tension. Next to Snoop Doggy Dog, exactly how white does the French-inflected lyric poem sound? Next to Chuck D?
Hansen’s argument echoes (consciously?) part of Robert Duncan’s poetics of derivation and does so in ways that are not reductive and simplistic. I’d love to hear people open that line of thinking up further.
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Preface Above the world-weary horiz
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of 750 subscribers. Because of the
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Introduction In a world where every
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But the "good old days" have passed
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Coeval with . . . to Ghosts vs. Mar
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From: Kevin Killian Subject: Carla
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If there’s one thing Harry learne
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The conservatism in this country co
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arts the mainstream is-and over the
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University of Auckland, is convenor
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less literate is implied by that "m
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What I am bothered about in these r
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From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Breaki
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characterization of some the struct
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This is not so much ingratiation of
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My reconstruction of the argument i
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into the poetic. And I am wondering
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From: Patrick Phillips Subject: The
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ideology which contorts the referen
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disparaging Reznikoff-while preserv
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intervention). Though I can anticip
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eturns, repetitions, etc., is perme
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From: Benjamin Friedlander Subject:
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shrewd, often polemical presence of
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eadings, recognition. Being inside,
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If I resist the idea of a literary
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From: Susan Schultz Subject: Commun
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From: Patrick Phillips Subject: The
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From: Steve Evans Subject: the soci
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The tradition of the oppressed teac
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My wobble is social, not theoretica
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From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Spicer
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From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Re: Gh
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Hermit Crabs Don’t Cry to Politic
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From: Robert Creeley Subject: Chick
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From: Jed Rasula Subject: Re: Olson
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BED… (P.S. Just in Baltimore and
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From: Ron Silliman Subject: Motivat
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From: Steve Evans Subject: Motives
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past year or so, despite the fact t
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It seems clear to me that some of t
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To clarify one general point in clo
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the most "out there" manifesto we
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Actually, the question of age is a
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indulges in "increasingly modest fo
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From: Tony Green Subject: calling G
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From: Ron Silliman Subject: Flaming
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parataxis, collage, sonnets, whatev
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From: Larry Price Subject: Anachron
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From: Ron Silliman Subject: Exile o
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From: Paul Hoover Subject: politics
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From: Aldon L. Nielsen Subject: lat
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Every site glides away toward absen
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Certain aspects of desire were regi
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whatever chaotic way) offer the abi
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From: Susan Schultz Subject: notes
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mouth, thick with money and piety a
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From: Steve Evans Subject: Shake Th
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From: Susan Schultz Subject: haoles
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From: Ron Silliman Subject: Univers
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From: Steve Evans Subject: Universa
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From: James Sherry Subject: Re: Uni
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From: Wystan Curnow Subject: Re-Aca
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From: John Cayley Subject: Experime
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From: Marisa A Januzzi Subject: dis
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Two senses of disorder, as also man
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At its best, Language poetry never
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hymed couplets I’ll be a langpo w
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From: Leslie Scalapino Subject: Re:
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From: Tom Mandel Subject: Re: apex
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From: Marjorie Perloff Subject: Re:
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language fails to describe their ex
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From: Eric Pape Subject: Re: apex o
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All every night walk by the venue i
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From: Ira Lightman Subject: CALL FO
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From: Bob Perelman Subject: Governm
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independence and possible sense of
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imagination, and often introduces t
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From: Ron Silliman Subject: Boy Tal
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From: B. Cass Clarke Subject: Quan
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Look at it this way-email is one of
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From: Nada Gordon Subject: where th
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From: Cynthia Kimball Subject: Ghos
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From: Loss Glazier Subject: Re: boy
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I do not want to be a woman all the
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i yam what i yam a world-changing f
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SAME TIME TO EXPLORE THEORIES OF SE
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From: Kali Tal Subject: Re: Boy Tal
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From: Ann Louise Vickery Subject: D
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From: Colleen Lookingbill Subject:
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7) Denial is an important part of t
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equirement of having to "pay dues,"
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From: Keith Tuma Subject: Re: Close
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From: Maria Damon Subject: more on
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From: David McAleavey Subject: Re:
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From: Kenneth Sherwood Subject: Int
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From: Hank Lazer Subject: close rea
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d’appui). It is easier for studen
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7a. Most probably that the monolith
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From: Eliot Katz Subject: more on c
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emancipatory elements which a reade
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From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: what
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in the culture through coercion of
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From: Kali Tal Subject: Re: what do
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their experience in a potent form-t
Page 211 and 212: From: Tom Mandel Subject: Re: Conse
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Page 215 and 216: But her [Stein’s] account of firs
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Page 219 and 220: From: Alfred Corn (forwarded by Sus
Page 221 and 222: From: Ron Silliman Subject: Value i
Page 223 and 224: From: Alan Golding Subject: Howe No
Page 225 and 226: so-called so-called Language writer
Page 227 and 228: From: Keith Tuma Subject: Ghost Cor
Page 229 and 230: ones that distinguish LP from "main
Page 231 and 232: the "mainstream" poetry that has th
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Page 237 and 238: seems to be a general consensus on
Page 239 and 240: From: Alfred Corn Subject: More For
Page 241 and 242: From: Marjorie Perloff Subject: Jor
Page 243 and 244: From: Ron Silliman Subject: Childre
Page 245 and 246: From: Kevin Killian Subject: A happ
Page 247 and 248: From: Mark Wallace Subject: bland a
Page 249 and 250: From: Mark McMorris Subject: Re: bl
Page 251 and 252: what one could call a systematic sy
Page 253 and 254: While I agree with Jeff Hansen’s
Page 255 and 256: in this way as part of a guarantee
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Page 259 and 260: of "elective affinity" by selective
Page 261: From: Jeff Hansen Subject: wild blu
Page 265 and 266: not be so elegantly presented as it
Page 267 and 268: From: Jerry Rothenberg Subject: on
Page 269 and 270: I cannot make it cohere. I can read
Page 271 and 272: Before reading Pound, I had only re
Page 273 and 274: So why am I still conflicted about
Page 275 and 276: typos!) once a poem was in print. S
Page 277 and 278: Reproductions of Banality: Fascism,
Page 279 and 280: influence. This new Pound criticism
Page 281 and 282: Yet Pound’s poetry is never simpl
Page 283 and 284: From: Dick Higgins Subject: Web Poe
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