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Why Bring That Up? Internet Movie Data Basesays title is “Do I Know What I’m Doing WhileI’m in Love” (no ?, same as copyright andlabel.)Amazingly, I couldn’t find this title (or any of itssisters above) in all the big online musicdatabases. So we have both the copyrightand the source movie credit agreeing on theextended title without a question mark. TheWaters 78 record had no extended title(perhaps because that label was so bloodycrowded with other info), and it too agreed onno question mark.Do It Baby (Clarence Williams) (seealso The Shim Sham Shimmy Dance)Helm–Leigh Jazz & Blues Review 1331[Before 12/13, the two titles were combined.]1186 Rusty Taylor was “Shim Sham Shimmy(Dance),” Spencer Williams-Andy Razaf; 1325Des Plantes & 1366 Dickie were ”Shim ShamShimmy Dance,” Clarence Williams-AR; 1331Helm-Leigh was “Do It, Baby,” CW-AR.Looks like I switched from Spencer toClarence without making any special note of it.(And note that there’s also a Shim ShamShimmy by J. Russel Robinson/FrankGoodman-Frank Montgomery, 1933; but it’sdefinitely a different tune.)1/15/01, later updated in 2013 review, basedon sheet music found in Cl. Williams files inMRR and the various recordings.In 1928 Williams copyrighted it with just leadsheet and lyrics, which repeatedly exhortedthe gal to “Do it, baby”; no mention of words“shim sham shimmy.” (The typed lyric sheet,by the way, says “By Clarence Williams,” nomentioned of Andy Razaf.)The copyright as entered in the booksconfirms this:Do it baby; words and music by C. Williams.[Words and melody only] © 1 c. Aug. 18,1928; E 699078; Clarence Williams musicpub. co., inc., New York.He recorded it for Columbia twice under thistitle in Nov-Dec 1928, as CW’s Jazz Kings, butboth takes were rejected. But the recording ofit by Katherine Henderson, backed by CWaho, in November 1928 was released on QRSR-7041 and Paramount 12840. Neither labelhad composer credits. She sings the verse,then the first chorus twice. (2nd chorus isignored.)Note that neither the handwritten lead sheet,nor the copyright reg., nor either of the K.Henderson labels has a comma in the title.Rust made that part up.Then, in 1933, Williams published it as TheShim Sham Shimmy Dance (note the The),m/Spencer Williams, w/Andy Razaf. The lyricis identical, except in every place but two.Main difference is that the exhortation to “Do itbaby” is replaced with the phrase “shim shamshimmy” (same syllabic pattern). Also minorchanges in last two lines of chorus.Copyright in books for this version isShim (The) sham shimmy dance; w AndyRazaf, m Clarence Williams; with ukulele arr.© July 1, 1933; E pub. 37176; ClarenceWilliams music pub. co., inc.He recorded it as CW Jug Band, with EvaTaylor on vocal, 8/7/33. Again, the Columbia2806-D label agrees: “The Shim ShamShimmy Dance,” by Williams-Razaf. Taylorsings just the chorus, which now has “shimsham shimmy” instead of “do it baby.”What do we have? Rusty Taylor and Ted desPlantes sing Shim Sham Shimmy, but CarolLeigh sings Do It Baby! Neville Dickie, wisely,doesn’t sing anything.This is a hell of a difficult pick. Same melodyand just a few words difference in lyrics. BUTthree of those changed words provide thetitles of the two versions. Moreover, they werecopyrighted separately, with differentcomposer credits), and they were recorded atthe time under both versions. As alike as theyare, we must treat them as different songs.Do Me a Favor (Jack Lawrence–Peter Tinturin)Neville Dickie 1397Do me a favor ; w Jack Lawrence, m PeterTinturin, pf. arr. R. H. Noeltner; with ukulelearr. 1934; E pub. 41094; © Mar. 12, Keitmusic corp.Do Something (Bud Green–Sam H. Stept)Dry Throat Fellows 1226Kustbandet 1294San Francisco Starlight Orchestra 1296Paramount JB of Boston 1340Blanche Calloway, 4/4/29, Edison 52570,14024.McKinney’s Cotton Pickers, 4/9/29, Victor V-38051.Sam Lanin aho, 4/26/29, Cameo 9158*;Lincoln 3185*; Pathe Aktuelle 36990**;Perfect 15171**; Romeo 960*; Banner 6388;Domino 4337; Regal 8783 (*as BroadwayBroadcasters; **as Tuxedo Dance Orch)The Sunshine Boys, 5/6/29, Columbia 1834-D,5524.Carolina Club orch, 7/1/29, OKeh 41277;Odeon A-189261, A-189263.Plus several Brit. recordings.Copyright:Do something; from Syncopation, wordsand music by Bud Green and Sam H.Stept.© Mar. 19. 1929; 2 c. Mar. 19; E pub.4355; Green & Stept, inc., New York.Do What Ory Say (Kid Ory)Hal Smith’s Creole Sunshine Orch 1078Delta Stompers 1426So we ended up with Do What Ory Say byOry, Gate Mouth by Lil, Get It Right byTraditional.2013 review: Well, see this:Rec. Kid Ory’s Creole JB in LA August 1945,Crescent 5--and credit on label says C.Williams. Label can be seen and song heardathttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b77npOKfUsIThere’s no copyright for “Do What Ory Say” inthe books for 1945-46.But see what Australian researcher Bill Haeslerwrote on the DJML list in 2003:Further to our discussion regarding thesong "Do What Ory Say":Geoff Bull told to me at lunch last Tuesdaythat the tune is in fact “Mama’s Baby Boy,”which was recorded by a Johnny Wiggs/Raymond Burke group.Armed with this information, I was able toestablish that “Mama’s Baby Boy” wascomposed in 1917 by John A St Cyr andArmand J Piron and published by the Pironand Clarence Williams partnership at thetime.[Editor’s note: Actually the copyright entry forthe song has two mm’s:Mamma’s baby boy; a jazz song, words andmusic by John A. St. Cyr, and Armand J.Piron. of U.S., arr. by F. Ahaynon. © May 4,1917; 2 c. May 7, 1917 E 404920; Williams &Piron music pub. co., New Orleans.The sheet music (see note at Mamma’s BabyBoy in this index) confirms all this.According to Rust, Earl Fuller’s band recordedit 2/27/18 for Victor, but it was rejected. TheVictor Project confirms this, and that thecomposers were Piron and St. Cyr.]But is it really the same tune?The Wiggs/Burke side was recorded on 7Oct 1952 by Ray Burke and His New
Orleanians and issued on LP (ParamountCJS 107) which I do not have. My matesPhil O'Rourke or Geoff Holden may have itsomewhere.I then found that it was recorded by TheSwedish Jazz Kings in California in Dec1987 on their first US tour and issued on LP(Stomp Off SOS 1188). Which I do have![This can be heard athttp://dickbaker.org/stompoff/sos1188--mammasbabyboy.mp3]It is indeed the same tune. My dearfriends, the SJKs, are dedicated jazz people,with a great love and knowledge of theclassic jazz era and would have, almostcertainly, taken their version (complete withverse) from the original sheet music. PianistRay Smith implies this in his notes to the LP.Then I thought about the big box of sheetmusic copies DJML angel, Audrey VanDyke, sent to me last year. Didn't this onecontain some early Piron-Williams stuff?And did I recall, or dream, that it includeda St Cyr sheet music item? I rang my matecltist David Ridyard, who is helping mecatalogue this addition to Audrey's earlier'goldmine of music', so that it can be madeavailable to others.Sure enough, it is there! "Mama's BabyBoy". Dave confirmed that he had alreadychecked, and that it is the "Do What OrySay" tune.Of course, it may go back further than1917 and it could be that Johnny St Cyrlearnt it in New Orleans days as a kid, andsimply rearranged it and wrote it down.But it goes back farther yet. In CreoleTrombone: Kid Ory and the Early Years of Jazz,John McCusker describes a band formed byOry and Joe Oliver:Ory’s band was known for its originalmaterial. Ed Garland said that, when hejoined the band in 1910, they were playingmade-up songs from the country. StellaOliver had similar memories. “Ory wouldsing songs he had made up and the restwould then work them out. They wouldwhistle and say songs they made up to eachother” “Ory had a pretty good ear. Tht’swhy Joe liked him so much, Manuel Manettarecalled.While playing a gig in an advertisingwagon, Ory began toying with the riff thatwould become his song “Do What Ory Say.”Oliver’s ears pricked up at the catchy dittyand he began to play along.We were in a big furniture wagon, driftingalong and when we came to a dull section,we weren’t playing every corner, just thehot spots, the hot corners so he said,“Keep playing it, play it again for me,please.” So, he said, “I think I have it.”So, we got on a corner and he said,“Let’s try it. Let’s go.” I stomped off and(King) Oliver kept the melody and thatquick I picked up harmony. Oliver waspretty fast himself, as everyone knows, butthat was a fast hand on the climax, myideas. So we started playing it. We played itonce or twice before we hit Toledano &Franklin where all the crowd was and therewe met Jack Carey’s band.We started to play it and everyone wantedto know what number was it. It was so new,we didn’t know it ourselves. WE didn’t haveno title more than “Do What Ory Say.” Ididn’t have no idea of no title so someonehollered and said, “What’s the number youplayed, Kid?”I said, “Oh, we’re just playing.” KingOliver said, “Do What Ory Say,” and theword started spreading around. . . .[paragraph about song’s dirty lyrics]The melody took on different names overthe years. In 1917 Clarence Williams andArmand Piron published it with the title“Mama’s Baby Boy.” The writing credit wentto Johnny St. Cyr, a former Ory bandmember, and Piron. Ory said Williams stoleit: “Clarence Williams appeared at EconomyHall were we played [Do What Ory Say] andhe wrote it down and he was in thepublishing business and stole an idea andhe changed the title. He came to EconomyHall and had me play it a couple of times anight. I didn’t know what they were up to.They were writing it down and got an ideafor a title.Historian William Russell recorded bandsin the forties that played the same melodywith the title “Pork Chop.” Whatever thename of the song or its origin, its popularityhelped raise the band’s profile.Louis Armstrong remembered “Do WhatOry Say,” though not by name.Kid Ory and Joe Oliver got together andmade one of the hottest jazz bands thatever hit New Orleans. They often played ina tailgate wagon to advertise a ball or otherentertainments. When they foundthemselves on a street corner next toanother band in another wagon, Joe andKid Ory would shoot the works. Theywould give with all that good, mad musicthey had under thjeir belts and the crowdwould go wild. When the other banddecided it was best to cut the competitionand start out for another corner, Kid Oryplayed a littlr tune on his trombone thatmade the crowd go wild again. But thistime they were wildl with laughter. It was acute little tune to celebrate the defeat of theenemy. I thought it screamingly funny and Ithink you would too.Well, where does this all get us? Unless wereject the story in the McCusker bookcompletely, which I see no reason to do, Ory“created” (if not wrote) the tune before 1917,but had it stolen, copyrighted, and publishedby Clarence Williams. Why Williams put St.Cyr & Piron on the copyright and music ascomposers is subject to speculation: perhapsto cover his tracks; perhaps because theyadded the introduction on their version thatwasn’t on the Ory version.It’s troubling, and odd, that when Oryhimself finally recorded it under his originaltitle in 1945, he put Clarence Williams on thelabel as composer, but there’s a possibleperverse logic: Ory felt that it had been stolenby Williams (not Piron & St. Cyr), and as muchas it must have galled him, he may have feltthat he could be in for legal trouble if he didn’tcredit Williams (who was still alive andpublishing in 1945).But wait, there’s more: According to a veryserious historical analysis of Hot Fiverecordings athttp://dippermouth.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/85-years-of-hot-seven-sol-bluesgully.html,talking specifically about “S.O.L. Blues,” wereadI mentioned that the Hot Seven just couldn'tplay a blues all the way through from start tofinish. Case in point: the entire openingsection, which is based on a song that someNew Orleans jazz fans might know as "DoWhat Ory Say" or "South" but really had itsorigins in the Crescent City during cuttingcontests, where it got its original title of "KissMy Fuckin' Ass" (sorry this has been such abawdy post!).But never mind that, it’s here for titillation.So we’ll credit Ory as the composer of “DoWhat Ory Say” on the basis of the above.But now what do we do about “Gate Mouth”and “Get It Right,” also thought to be copiesof/steals from Ory’s tune? To keep all this lineof speculation in one place, I’ll reproduce theentries and notes for those tunes below.First,Gate Mouth (Louis Armstrong)Black Eagle JB 1054New Yankee Rhythm Kings 1067Abi Hübner’s Low Down Wizards 1093Jean-François Bonnel & Friends 1104Lyttelton–Fawkes Troglodytes 1238
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6th editionWORKING DRAFT WITH NOTES
Page 3 and 4:
Further background notes in case I
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Absolutely (Jabbo Smith)Grand Domin
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Ah-Ha! (James V. Monaco-Sidney Clar
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Zenith Hot Stompers 1248Black Eagle
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Tex’s original-looking 1920 sheet
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(this is not the popular Smith-Burr
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Barrel House Rag - Campbell hand-wr
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seen often both ways, so will chang
Page 24 and 25: Aug. 22, 1919; E 458166; Spencer Wi
Page 26 and 27: ecording was Bob Hudson. This may w
Page 28 and 29: Carroll Dickerson’s Savoy Orch, 5
Page 30 and 31: Al Dubin)Paul and His Gang 1329Bles
Page 32 and 33: “BLUE GOOSE”RAGThis says to me
Page 34 and 35: No composer credit on label. Chilto
Page 36 and 37: Lathair is the guy who worked in Ch
Page 38 and 39: Bouncing Around (Armand J. Piron-Pe
Page 40 and 41: Bright Star Blues (Armand J. Piron-
Page 42 and 43: Thought I Heard Buddy Bolden Say)."
Page 44 and 45: But fellow researchers out there, c
Page 46 and 47: Aha, LC cy catalog of 1929 says,Cal
Page 48 and 49: Did find the LC copyright:Candy lip
Page 50 and 51: Not in Rust. Ted des Plantes’ lin
Page 52 and 53: So it was copyrighted by Oliver alo
Page 54 and 55: Chicken Reel (Joseph M. Daly)Helm-L
Page 56 and 57: Kinkle shows it as "Ciribiribin (It
Page 58 and 59: Becket’s composition or followed
Page 60 and 61: ASM, 1931, Santly Bros.; w. AF/m. F
Page 62 and 63: John Gill reports 1/18/24 copyright
Page 64 and 65: Frankie Trumbauer aho, 6/24/31, Bru
Page 66 and 67: ut Bob says it never felt comfortab
Page 68 and 69: the second 32-bar theme is my own,
Page 70 and 71: ’Deed I Do (Walter Hirsch-Fred Ro
Page 72 and 73: Rec. Moten 6/12/27, Victor 21199--a
Page 76 and 77: Rhodes: "’Get It Right’ = ‘Do
Page 78 and 79: At Bessie’s request, all of the c
Page 80 and 81: “Don’t Go ’Way Nobody,” a s
Page 82 and 83: migrated northward up the Mississip
Page 84 and 85: 1915; 2 c. July 24, 1915; E 363546;
Page 86 and 87: Woode on two other titles. So obvio
Page 88 and 89: all four posibilities we’d have t
Page 90 and 91: Echoes from the Snowball Club(Harry
Page 92 and 93: Music by Sadie Koninsky, arranged b
Page 94 and 95: OH, hell. After all this I thought
Page 96 and 97: Farmerette (Jesse Greer)George Fole
Page 98 and 99: Firechief Rag (Danny Alguire)Smith-
Page 101 and 102: and cy page) (You’ll Miss Me in t
Page 103 and 104: Gambling Jack (Jelly Roll Morton)Pa
Page 106 and 107: and "Boy Friend." Kinkle agrees. It
Page 108 and 109: soul all human beings feel. That th
Page 110 and 111: Magnolia JB 1016Turk Murphy JB 1161
Page 112 and 113: Grandpa’s Spells (Jelly Roll Mort
Page 114 and 115: Waldo’s Jazz Entertainers 1377Con
Page 116 and 117: We’ve not included arrangers as c
Page 118 and 119: “Hello Montreal” (but surely it
Page 120 and 121: 1903 sheet could mean that it’s a
Page 122 and 123: 2013 review: We can do better than
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21, 1925; E 627852 Triangle music p
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Rust; if it comes after record numb
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Found sleeve cover for 45 on Pye-Vo
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Actually, it appears that the choru
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So far, still solidly in the “unk
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can find no evidence she ever did a
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tune attributed to Pecora, even und
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(Harry Woods-Billy Rose-Mort Dixon)
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Ponce, also pub. Ager, Yellen & Bor
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If Winter Comes (W. R. Williams-Joh
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Crawford set phrases chanted by Mar
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I’m All Bound ’Round with the M
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Telcon 8/28: OK, do the two = three
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Smith, an article titled “Jelly R
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2013 review: Rec.Clarence Williams
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Confirmed 8/18/36 copyright reg.In
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Alstyne-Williams] via your note of
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Benny Goodman-Jack Teagarden)State
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Jazz Baby (M. K. Jerome-Blanche Mer
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1915; E 372536; Will Rossiter, Chic
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For what it’s worth, Ellington’
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James D. Touchstone. The song's ope
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Online search found FAR more hits o
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Ondippermouth.blogspot.com/2012/11/
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2013 review: Confirmed by 11/26/23
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Confirmed by 4/10/35 copyright reg.
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Eureka, I finally found the instrum
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Let’s Have Another Cup of Coffee(
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Limehouse Blues (Philip Braham-Doug
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some mighty obscure evidence to the
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Keith Nichols Cotton Club Orchestra
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But copyright page isLow Bridge!
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Louisiana Repertory Jazz Ensemble 1
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document it. Ah: Thompson’s liner
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BUT notice alsoMarket Street Blues,
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James V. Monaco)Frederick Hodges 13
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Melancholy Stomp (Don Ewell)Europea
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(where’d he get that?), it was ar
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listing as an alternative title. Ho
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2013 review: It appears that I neve
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For Christ’s sake! Wikipedia has
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Steve Abrams: 1924 by Kapp-Coleman-
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More Than That (Ben Barnett-Clarenc
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Mule Walk, The [Mule Walk Stomp](Ja
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connection with the refrain. The ve
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Ray Smith: credit should go to Oliv
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My Man o’ War (Andy Razaf-Spencer
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Dan Levinson’s Roof Garden JB 136
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Never Again (Isham Jones-Gus Kahn)P
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New Orleans wiggle; by Peter Bocage
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Turk: "That was a tune called '1919
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Norfolk Church Street Sobbin’ Blu
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Oh, baby; from Rain or shine, words
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2013 review: Found the copyright:O
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Rec. Sharkey Bonano, 1/29/37, Vocal
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earliest example I know of that use
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West Jesmond Rhythm Kings 1255All S
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2013 review: Couldn’t find anythi
Page 243 and 244:
Paddle-wheelin’ Along (A Sacramen
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Rosa Henderson, 8/26, Banner 18892*
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and in parens), credits Raye-Shaver
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The Commodore reissue of all the la
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(Sidney Bechet-Rousseau Simmons)Pam
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Porcupine Rag (Charles L. Johnson)R
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Ray Smith 1162Promenade aux Champs-
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Rag Time ChimesWell, very clear on
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Oops, not in copyright books 1929-3
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But Kassel had many other copyright
Page 263 and 264:
Hodges, but the Black Berries Oriol
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Alabama Red Peppers, 4/28, Cameo 82
Page 267 and 268:
But wait: I remember that I have BG
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Moulin à café as alt. title, of c
Page 271 and 272:
Sadness Will Be Gladness(Wingy Mano
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Found sheet music at U. Maine, conf
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with arr. for guit., etc. © Oct. 1
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Page 279 and 280:
The Bluebird ODJB 75th Anniversary
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ig questions is this: Is she singin
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Shine on Your Shoes, A(Arthur Schwa
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[also published in song versionwith
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Skit-dat-de-dat; melody by Lillian
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John Gill’s Novelty Orchestra 122
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Lillian Johnson?! Yes, that was Lil
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Abrams follow-up: I had this record
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she were a composer, she’d have m
Page 297 and 298:
South African Blues (Lester Melrose
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Audrey Van Dyke. It is a lead sheet
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with ukulele arr. Dick Konter. © J
Page 303 and 304:
Cover also notes “Also Published
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ditto. Bunk never wrote nothin’.
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Sure wish we could track down the H
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had become a hit, would have been p
Page 311 and 312:
Rilhac was a pianist and recording
Page 313 and 314:
Copyright goes to Emmalina, but no
Page 315 and 316:
Weatherbird JB 1034Kustbandet 1178D
Page 317 and 318:
Dick Zimmerman confirms our origina
Page 319 and 320:
Pretty sure without having heard it
Page 321 and 322:
Les Rois du Fox-Trot 1436< Is this
Page 323 and 324:
were Feldman 6D black and white edi
Page 325 and 326:
Confirmed by 10/1/31 unpub. Copyrig
Page 327 and 328:
Men Now Days (see Ain’t MuchGood
Page 329 and 330:
Cover isThere’s Something Nice Ab
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title? Every rag that doesn’t inc
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eproduces the sheet music cover, wh
Page 335 and 336:
Too Tight (Natty Dominique)Pam Pame
Page 337 and 338:
Bozo-blues; words and melody by Boz
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and Donald Lambert, MC'd by Rudi Bl
Page 342 and 343:
Now that’s the way my folks would
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the Country” and has no composer
Page 346 and 347:
Must go with copyright reg. and som
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Goodman reports: I have 1917 bandar
Page 350 and 351:
influential label, the MicKinney’
Page 352 and 353:
Band also spell West Lawn as two se
Page 354 and 355:
Ida Cox, but more to our point is t
Page 356 and 357:
2013 review: Well, it was recorded
Page 358 and 359:
John Gill’s Calif. Sunshine Boys
Page 360 and 361:
When You Walked OutSomeone Else Wal
Page 362 and 363:
actual Parlophone label of the Hyde
Page 364 and 365:
That’s a bizarre mistake for Mazz
Page 366 and 367:
Written 1979, plenty of online conf
Page 368 and 369:
At the time [i.e., shortly after hi
Page 370 and 371:
Keith Nichols Cotton Club Orchestra
Page 372 and 373:
You Broke Your Promise (George Wyle
Page 374 and 375:
Louis Cottrell Trio, NO, 1/27/61, R
Page 376 and 377:
ASM, 1932, Witmark & Sons; w. Dubin
Page 378 and 379:
[And Klein Tindull is for real. His
Page 380 and 381:
In that same book on page 257 thefo
Page 382 and 383:
“Put Your Arms Around Me, Honey
Page 384 and 385:
Si tu vois ma mère [If You See My
Page 386 and 387:
At this point (June 30, 2011), I wi
Page 388 and 389:
Black Mountain Blues - copyright in
Page 390 and 391:
VICTOR ALTERNATIVE TITLES(Victor te
Page 392 and 393:
CHECK COPYRIGHT CARDSAfrican Hunch
Page 394 and 395:
Galion stomp - lovie austin?Gates B
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meanest blues - napoleon & signorel
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slide, frog, slidesnakes hips spenc
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Wild and wooly (or woolly) willie -
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