Volume 3 - Prabhupada Books

Text 193] Talks Between the Lord and Ramananda Raya 207
bodily senses or mental speculation. Our identification with the gross body and
subtle mind is different from spiritual understanding. Since the intelligence and
mind are material, the loving affairs of Sri Radha and Kr�T;�a are beyond their per­
ception. (sarvopadhi-vinirmuktaril tat-paratvena nirmalam): when we are free
from all material designations and our senses are completely purified by the bhak­
ti process, we can understand the sense activities of the Absolute Truth (h[$ikef)a
h[$ikesa-sevanaril bhaktir ucyate).
The spiritual senses are beyond the material senses. A materialist can think only
of the negation of material variety; he cannot understand spiritual variety. He
thinks that spiritual variety simply contradicts material variety and is a negation or
void, but such conceptions cannot even reach the precincts of spiritual realiza­
tion. The wonderful activities of the gross body and subtle mind are always imper­
fect. They are below the degree of spiritual understanding and are ephemeral. The
spiritual mellow is eternally wonderful and is described as purf)a, suddha, nitya­
mukta -that is completely purified and eternally liberated from all material con­
ceptions. When we are unable to fulfill our material desires, there is certainly sor­
row and confusion. This may be described as vivarta. However, in spiritual life
there is no sorrow, inebriety or imperfection. Srila Ramananda Raya was expert in
realizing the spiritual activities of Srimati Radharal)i and Kr�l)a, and Ramananda's
spiritual experience was placed before Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu as he inquired
whether the Lord approved his realization of spiritual truth.
There are three books prominent in this connection. One was written by Bhak­
ta dasa Baula and is called Vivarta-vilasa. Another was compiled by Jagadananda
and is called Prema-vivarta. Sri Ramananda Raya's book is called Prema-vilasa­
vivarta. The Vivarta-vilasa by Bhakta dasa Baula is completely different from the
other two books. Sometimes a university student or professor tries to study these
transcendental literatures and attempts to put forth a critical analysis from the
mundane view, with an end to receiving degrees like a Ph. D. Such realization is
certainly different from that of Ramananda Raya. If one actually wants to take a
Ph. D. degree from Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and be approved by Ramananda
Raya, he must first become free from all material designations (sarvopadhi-vinir­
muktaril tat-paratvena nirmalam). A person who identifies with his material body
cannot understand these talks between Sri Ramananda Raya and Sri Caitanya
Mahaprabhu. Man-made religious scriptures and transcendental philosophical
talks are quite different. Indeed, there is a gulf of difference between the two. This
subject matter has been very diligently described by Sriman Madhvacarya. Since
material philosophers are situated in the material prema of vilasa-vivarta, they are
unable to realize the spiritual prema-vilasa-vivarta. They cannot accommodate an
elephant upon a dish. Similarly, mundane speculators cannot capture the spiritual
elephant within their limited conception. It is just like a frog's trying to measure
the Atlantic Ocean by imagining it so many times larger than his well. Materialistic
philosophers and sahajiyas cannot understand the talks between Ramananda