Non-Normative Gender and Sexual Identities in Schools: - Schools Out

AM: …exactly, where they’ve got to learn from somewhere
SS: That’s right
AM: OK great. So um you’ve mentioned a number of policies and research actually um
and also how inefficient they can be and my question is um [//] how useful do you think
these policies and campaigns have been, some of which you’ve touched upon, for
example the new DCSF guidance, well we haven’t had long to really think about that and
why do you think the policies are and are not useful?
SS: I think legislation and policies are crucial in the sense that they I mean they give you
[//] a chance to be able to say, you’ve gotta be doing this work. The problem is, if you got
back now we’ve had twenty years of legislation around gender and ethnicity, we are still
imprisoning black people at a ridiculously high level. Women still do not have equal pay
and a woman is murdered every three days, by an ex-partner.
AM: Which tells you a lot about policy.
SS: Yes. On the other hand, without the legislation and the policy do cant do you should
be doing this, you need to be dealing with this…
AM: {yep}
SS: …now I think what was really interesting was and I think Chris may have mentioned
this to you cos he was at the same meeting yesterday, are you familiar with the No-
Outsiders Project?
AM: I am, I am indeed yeah.
SS: Well, I’m on the board of that and Chris is as well and we were both at a meeting
yesterday and what came out of the discussion that we had yesterday was [//] they are
probably working with around fifteen different schools around the country, maybe
more…
AM: {yeah}
SS: …primary schools, um, you need to talk to Elizabeth I think.
AM: Yes, I was hoping to do that. Unfortunately because my project is quite small I’m
mainly focussing on secondary schools…
SS: {right}
AM: …two things. One is I do want to bring Elizabeth into it and two if I take it wider
into PhD I will definitely look at primary and secondary, so yes.
SS: But I think you know her work is so crucial…