Zirve Eki - ISTANBUL REstate

16-17 Haziran 2010
is like this. My rooms are this size and all these. This is one part but
one must have this book. And then you have to have some
characteristic things. I can imagine for example Radisson has always
this trouser press or the kettle and so on. Perhaps it is not that
important but it creates a brand. Then the color, the sign...
Michael Widmann: So all the standards...
Haluk Kaya: Yeah, the uniform. Most important is the declaration
of service. What is your service? So I mean, and this, sorry, and the
chains we have like Marmara, Dedeman, Divan, I know that they
are looking for also management contracts. But without bringing
this package, you cannot convince a Turk. A Turk is anyhow very
difficult to convince to have a foreign operator. They say what does
he understand from that service in Turkey and so on, you know.
This is the mentality.
Michael Widmann: You have developed city hotels including
the Radisson Bosporus, you are currently working on resort hotels.
If you develop now, let's say, one city hotel, one resort hotel, what
would be your criteria? Would you automatically approach an
international brand for city hotels? What is the reasoning in a resort?
Does an international brand gives you values or what are the
differences between these two different markets?
Haluk Kaya: In the city hotel, the reservation system of the chain
is very important. They feel the hotel. You cannot sit in front of the
hotel and wait for the guests. And if you have a normal marketing
guy in your hotel, he doesn't have the means to reach everybody
in the world whereas a chain has its own reservation system. This
is a big strength if you are operating also city hotel, the money they
earn, the hotel operators, they don't take the money of the investors.
They create the money by optimizing and by controlling. This is very
important. The people think, ooh, I am paying them 8% of my profit.
It is not the profit he has now. He will have 10% more profit and
give 8% of it to the operator. So this has to be learned. Now if I
come to the resort hotels, Americans have resort hotels of different
kinds but there aren't any resort hotel in Europe in the type what
we have in Turkey. And this is why they had not been successful. I
know one case, they build a Novotel in Kemer area, they moved out
up to 2 years. And then in Antalya in Belek there is the Kempinski
which is never making money.
Michael Widmann: How about the club operators? Club Med,
Robinson...
Haluk Kaya: Oh, this is something else because these are resort
operators. Also TUI, they take some hotel they operate. They know
it but not normal hotel chains.
Michael Widmann: So in the resort business, the international
brands don't give a lot of value. Maybe it is also because the tour
operators are so strong in this business.
Haluk Kaya: It is yes, the resort business is dictated by the tour
operators. They feel it and they dictate the prices, they dictate the
type, they dictate the quality. I will in my resort, I will take international
brand because the whole philosophy of the resort, villas and everything,
it is not so much tour operator driven and I want to create a value
that there are also many people who come to Turkey for golf and
they don't want to go to all inclusive hotels. They want something
else and this is why I am building a 90 key and 20 villa resort hotel.
And this will be operated internationally.
Gayrimenkul Zirvesi 10
Michael Widmann: Isn't it surprising that now some medium size
Turkish hotel groups like Dedeman and Divan are in the city hotel
business but there is no company of that strength in the resort
business.
Michael Widmann: Or I am not aware of...
Haluk Kaya: Yes they are not chains. For example the Gloria in
Antalya, he started with one hotel, he has now 3 hotels, altogether
perhaps 1500-1600 rooms. There are, duplicate investors but not in
the sense as a hotel investor. This is always Antalya hotel business
which is a business site for people who got rich in textile, construction,
export, something else.
Michael Widmann: And the opportunities are wasted. Dedeman
and Divan City Groups can now go beyond Turkey.
Haluk Kaya: Yes
Michael Widmann: Syria is one market everybody is interested
in.
Haluk Kaya: Moldavia also...
Michael Widmann: ...Moldavia, Iran, Iraq, Azerbaijan and there
is also many neighboring countries and it is interesting to see that
the Turkish groups, I am careful not to say the Turkish brands because
you would contradict me.
Haluk Kaya: Yes
Michael Widmann: but the Turkish groups go abroad but there
is also know how in the resort business. Why can't this be formulated
and exported? Or is that not enough?
Haluk Kaya: Okay. Our resort hotel business has started with
unbelievable incentives. Government has given you the land.
Government has given you credit. Government even promised you
to give grants as much as your paid capital. Never did, but promised.
So it is encouraged. So our resort people, they are not used to pay
for the land and 49 year lease who knows what happen. They will
find a solution in 49 year's time. This is the philosophy. So everyone
makes their own management. Not everyone of them is successful
then they change their managers every year. But they don't look
upon it as a business. Hotel owning is a business but hotel management
for this people who are making millions and millions in textile or
construction; it is not business for them. And there is no other, I
mean, there has been, there was a group who said I am going out
now to managed also resort hotels, they didn't have success.
Michael Widmann: If you look now a little bit critical at the role
of the international groups, for many of those, the main path to
growth is franchising but for franchising you need a partner who
manages. So if there is no real tradition and culture of managing
hotels besides owning it and managing it, how can they succeed?
So what do the international groups maybe do wrong and where
should they adapt to the Turkish market in your opinion?
Haluk Kaya: I know some franchises, for example the Marriott on
the other side is a franchise. If an owner is convinced he needs a
foreign operator, it is not for the franchising, he wants the discipline.
He wants everything is connected with it, not the name. Of course
it would be posh to have a name but you immediately notice also, I
don't know if you do but I do. When you enter a hotel and it is
franchise. I enter the so called Four Seasons in Portugal and I said
this is not four seasons. People who need an image, they might take
GYODER 163