Zirve Eki - ISTANBUL REstate

84 GYODER
Gayrimenkul Zirvesi 10
eklendi¤i zaman çok ciddi maliyetler do¤urur do¤rusu. Ezcümle,
sürdürülebilir yat›r›m fludur. Bir finansman taraf›ndan bakt›¤›m›zda,
bu konuyla ilgili yani bir al›flverifl merkezi projesiyle ilgili her taraf›n,
arsa sahibinden bafllay›p o silsileyi takip edip tabii ki yat›r›mc›s› ama
en sonunda iflletmecisi de dahil olmak üzere, mimar› da dahil olmak
üzere hizmet a¤lar›n›z tüm taraflar›n ödenecek bedeli hep birlikte
paylaflmay› kabul ettikleri yat›r›md›r.
Özlem Dalga: Evet, herkesin maliyeti paylaflmas› gerekiyor. Kazan
kazan formülü burada ön plana ç›k›yor. Tabii bu da benim akl›ma
hemen müflterilerin kazan kald›rmas›, müflteri rebellion'› akl›ma
getiriyor. Geçti¤imiz sene en çok konuflulan konu buydu, al›flverifl
merkezleri deyince. Bu müflterilerle ara yol nas›l bulundu, kazan
kazan formülü nas›l bulundu? Biraz bunu konuflal›m. Is the rebellion
of tenants over? What is the winning formula? What was the solution
that came out of the rebellion of tenants?
Patrick van Dooyeweert: I think there is no win-win situation
here. Because the, how do I phrase this, once you gave in and I
know that there a lot of parties in this market, give in or have to
give in, once you did, you create a new zero situation and once you
gave something, you can never take it back that easy. So, where is the
win-win here? The win-win here is maybe that the landlords on one
side became more aware of the fact that they should see retailer as a
partner. And you see that I am really slowly pronouncing this. And see
them as a partner on the long term so that it has been mentioned
before if your partner is happy, then you are happy. You have a happy
marriage. That is what I always hear at least. So it is the landlords I think
started to understand that it doesn't make sense to over ask. So extreme
high rents like we have seen during the boom in 2004 or 2005, that
time is over because in the end you pay the bill yourself. But I think
the win on the side of the retailer is that they understood that they
just should not sign any contract. And that happened also during
the boom. Any contracts that just opportunistic. They signed the
contract and went in. And that is on the capital expense because
they could gather a bank loan easily or they finance it from their
own turnover in the successful shops. And they just spend a few
thousand Euro fit out and they just gave it trial and in the end didn't
work out because the mall was bad or the rent was too high or
footfall was not good or for whatever reason. So, I think the winwin
again is that both sides of the partnership understood that you
have to do some research, that it doesn't make sense to go over the
short term. But that you should think about how is this tenant is
doing in five years from now. And the tenant has also started to
think okay, what is the few months after opening when the footfall
is good and when there is a big flow of people? Because they see
there is something new and we want to have a look and the
marketing campaign etc. Once that is over and the mall is basically
thrown back to the basics of location, concept and the software
that the way is filled in. Tenants started to understand that they also
should look not at tomorrow but how at is this product doing in
five years. And I rather have a lot of tenants declining new opportunities
and not signing lease contracts because they don't believe in the
location rather than they just go in everywhere and they try to get
out once it doesn't work. So, that is the win-win. It is not really a
formula, but it is more about awareness.
Özlem Dalga: Nils, how about the facility and property management
16-17 Haziran 2010
side? What was the win-win formula?
Nils Lueken: So we do not feel at the end of the value chain in
such business. But we do not feel the rebellion of tenants. You know,
like the letting side or the investors feel it. We feel the rebellion of
tenants if after ten years, the investors do not invest anymore, in kind
of refurbishment in the mall and there is a new generation mall built
next to the original, mall and maybe some competiting retailers
moving to another mall. And they are stuck there with the, get
stucked in this old mall. So, we feel rebellion of tenants every time,
the services, the daily services are bad, in a bad shape. So, you know
electricity is not running, you know you can't use a cash desk as a
retailer. If you can't use a cash desk, you can't collect money. And
if you can't collect money, the investor doesn't collect any rents. So
we feel rebellion of tenants every time investors are not willing to
invest into daily services in terms of technical maintenance, or after
ten years into investing into refurbishment or repositioning of the
shopping mall. Because, in daily business, it is the services provider,
it is the property manager or the center manager who gets into touch
with the retailers like every day, every hour. We get back like we are
feeling if retailers do not feel comfortable anymore in this mall. You
know it is more about simple things, not about like letting or you
know, when we get all we feel about rebellion of tenants. But there
is no - you know, the only thing we can recommend there is to invest
into professional services providers that keep the technical fitting and
the building in a shape.
Özlem Dalga: Thank you. Peki mimari aç›dan etkileri nas›l oldu?
Onu biraz konuflal›m çünkü kendini yenilemekten bahsetti Nils. Mimari
tarafta kirac›lara karfl›, kirac›lar›n bu baflkald›rmas›n›n yans›malar› nas›l
oldu?
Enis Öncüo¤lu: fiimdi kirac›lar›n tabii daha az sat›fl yapt›klar›
dönemde daha ekonomik iflletmelere yöneldiler. Bununla ilgili al›flverifl
merkezlerinin içindeki iflletme maliyetlerini inceler oldular. E¤er sizin
yapt›¤›n›z al›flverifl merkezi, tasar›m›nda ›s› kay›p kazançlar› do¤ru
hesaplanmam›flsa, baz› enerji tasarrufu sistemleri projenin içine entegre
edilmemiflse do¤al olarak daha fazla iflletme gideri ödeyip ayn› hizmeti
al›r oldunuz. Tasar›m burada çok öne ç›kt›. Özellikle mesela klima
maliyetleri. fiu anda burada hepimiz s›caktan pifliyoruz. Muhtemelen
buras› tasarland›¤› zaman bu kapasite hesaplanarak tasarlan›yor ama
belli iflletme maliyetleri öne ç›k›nca buralardan da tasarruf edilebiliyor
ya da edilemiyor. Bunu ikinci bir versiyonu da insan kaynaklar›. Bence
insan kaynaklar› da çok öne ç›kt›. Buray› iflleten kimseler var, Nils'in
bahsetti¤i gibi. Siz milyonlarca dolarl›k yat›r›m›n›z› ayda bin dolar
verdi¤iniz bir teknisyenin eline emanet ediyorsunuz. Bir örnek vermek
gerekirse, Kazakistan'da bir projemizde iyi so¤utulmad›¤› için elefltiri
ald›k. Araflt›rd›k ki sonuç fleyden de¤il, ne tasar›mdan ne imalattan.
Sadece yaz k›fl modundaki basit bir dü¤meyi çevirmeyi bile bilemeyecek
bir teknik elemandan kaynaklan›yor. Düflünün siz çok pahal› bir araba
al›yorsunuz ama daha evvel hiç o arabay› kullanmam›fl ya da o süratleri
yapmam›fl bir flöföre emanet ediyorsunuz. Bu da öyle birfley. Türkiye'de
özellikle bir anda çok büyük al›flverifl merkezi sektöründe patlama
oldu ama önemli kriterlerden birisi de iflte o fleyi, yat›r›mlar› yönetecek
iflletme ve personelin de e¤itilerek pazara kazand›r›lmas›yd›. Ve bunu
mekanlarla entegre edecek teknolojilerin de öngörülerek fleyde,
yat›r›m›n içinde rol almas›yd› diye düflünüyorum.
Özlem Dalga: fiimdi kirac›lar›n baflkald›r›s› deyince hat›rlad›¤›m flu.