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scenaS.P.: Iar aceasta ce e?I.G.: Dateazæ din anii ’90, e un performance într-o sinagogæ unde am flinut un discursdespre problema bisericilor øi a sinagogilor, asupra relafliilor dintre evrei øi români,îndeosebi asupra cæsætoriei…H.U.O.: Se leagæ de problema iconoclasmului?I.G.: Aici nu. La Cluj existæ probleme de naflionalitate. Este o regiune în care, pevremea ræzboiului, au existat conflicte între evrei, maghiari øi români…H.U.O.: Iar aici sînt autoportrete?I.G.: Da.S.P.: Ce face aici?M.C.: Se spalæ pe faflæ. E surprins cu ajutorul declanøærii întîrziate de la aparatul foto.Sînt Daily Rituals. Existæ asemenea fotografii de interior foarte interesante, bunæoaræe una în care se aflæ în bucætærie øi mænîncæ unt… Putem sæ le numim ritualuri alevieflii cotidiene, mi se pare …S.P.: Øi prezentafli în public aceste lucruri la vremea respectivæ?I.G.: Nu, ræmîneau mai degrabæ intime… Sau circulau într-un cerc foarte restrîns…H.U.O.: La vremea aceea expuseseræfli deja în stræinætate, sau doar mai tîrziu?I.G.: Nu, a fost mai tîrziu. Am început sæ le expun doar dupæ ’98…S.P.: Am putea vedea niøte performance? Body-art? Existæ informaflii, în acest sens,la muzeu? Arhive?M.C.: Poate sæ væ ofere cataloage, fiindcæ are multe dubluri.S.P.: Dar putem sæ îi vedem operele la muzeu, de exemplu?M.C.: Disearæ or sæ fie. Va fi filmul despre Ceauøescu, despre care am vorbit, unalt film mai recent… Existæ øi o fotografie cu construcflia palatului lui Ceauøescu.S.P.: De exemplu aceasta, de cînd dateazæ?I.G.: ’76.S.P.: Øi a fost un performance?M.C.: Sæ spunem un autoperformance… Acasæ la el…S.P.: Ah da. Deci nu sînt performance, în sens strict, ci lucruri pe care le fæcea færæpublic…M.C.: La vremea aceea nu se putea aræta aøa ceva…H.U.O.: Deci pare sæ existe o practicæ zilnicæ a autoportretului…M.C.: E o temæ recurentæ la Ion Grigorescu, sinele, imaginea de sine…H.U.O.: Continuæ aceastæ practicæ? Væ mai fotografiafli?I.G.: Da. Însæ nu în fiecare zi.S.P.: Aveafli, la vremea aceea, contacte cu Austria? Øtiafli ce se fæcea la Viena?I.G.: Am expus la Viena de mai multe ori (în 1990, 1993 øi 2001). Acum existæ,la Viena, o manifestare numitæ Ziua Bucureøtiului, în noiembrie, øi sînt invitat.H.U.O.: Dar cu acflionismul vienez? Cu Brus, Muhl?I.G.: Nu, n-am întîlnit artiøti.H.U.O.: Øi au fost evenimente cu Fundaflia Generali, deoarece am væzut acolo lucræriale dumneavoastræ…S.P.: Da. Însæ sînt lucræri mai recente, nu dateazæ din perioada aceea…I.G.: Exact.S.P.: Afli analizat aceastæ obsesie a autoportretului? Avefli idee care e motivul?I.G.: E greu de spus. Mæ foloseam pe mine ca model øi ca actor. Ca de cineva carear putea exprima lucruri ce îmi sînt stræine. E o cæutare introspectivæ…S.P.: Dar existæ o insistenflæ asupra nuditæflii. Cel mai adesea corpul nud e pus înscenæ… iar la vremea aceea nu era aøa de uøor sæ faci un autoportret nud…I.G.: Nu era atît dificultatea de a mæ fotografia, cît, desigur, imposibilitatea de a expune.De fapt chiar øi azi!S.P.: Ah da? Chiar øi azi?About the relations between Jews and Romanians, especially aboutmarriage...H.U.O.: Is it connected to the problem of Iconoclasm?I.G.: Not here. In Cluj there are ethnic issues. It’s a region where, duringthe war, there were conflicts between Jews, Hungarians and Romanians...H.U.O.: And those are self-portraits?I.G.: Yes.S.P.: What is he doing there?M.C.: He is washing his face. It was taken with the camera retarding.Daily Rituals. There are such interior photos that are very interesting,for example there is one with him in the kitchen eating butter...We can call them rituals of daily life I think...S.P.: Were these things publicly presented at that time?I.G.: No, it was rather intimate... Or it circulated in a very limitedcircle...H.U.O.: And have you exhibited abroad at that time or only later?I.G.: No, it was later. I’ve started presenting things only after 1998...S.P.: And can we see the performances? The body-art? Are there elementsof information at the museum? Archives?M.C.: He can give you catalogs because he has many in duplicate.S.P.: But can we find his works at the museum for instance?M.C.: Tonight there will be some. The film on Ceauøescu we’vetalked about and another more recent film. There is also a verybeautiful photo of the Ceauøescu’s palace under construction.S.P.: From what year is this?I.G.: ’76.S.P.: And it was a performance.M.C.: Let’s say an auto-performance... It was taken at his place...S.P.: Oh yes. So they aren’t performances stricto sensu. He did thesethings without public...M.C.: At that time such things couldn’t be shown...H.U.O.: So there is a daily practice of self-portrait...M.C.: It is a recurrent theme with Ion Grigorescu, the self, the selfimage...H.U.O.: Is it an on-going practice? Do you still make photos of yourself?I.G.: Yes. But not every day.S.P.: Have you had contacts with Austria at that time? You knewwhat was going on in Vienna?I.G.: I exhibited in Vienna several times (in 1990, 1993 and 2001).Now there is an event called Bucharest Day in Vienna, in Novemberand I have been invited.H.U.O.: What about the Viennese Actionism? Brus, Muhl?I.G.: No, I haven’t met any artist.H.U.O.: But something was going on with the Generali Foundation,because I saw things you have made...S.P.: Yes, that’s right. But those are more recent works, they don’t goso far back in time...I.G.: Exactly.S.P.: And have you analyzed this obsession for the self-portrait?Do you have any idea about its motive?I.G.: It’s difficult to say. I make use of myself like of a model andan actor, like of someone who could express things that are notmine. It is an introspective quest...S.P.: But there is a special insistence on nudity. The body is oftenstaged... And in those days it wasn’t easy to make a nude selfportrait...I.G.: It was less the difficulty to take a photo of myself than, ofcourse, the impossibility to exhibit. Even today!S.P.: Oh really? Even today?I.G.: Yes, even today people are not eager to show such things.Even at the museum. There is a tradition of prudishness in Romania.But in the West it is the same! I don’t think that people are really andtruly open to nudity...61