A Record of Meetings held by P.D. Ouspensky - HolyBooks.com

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MISS M. In reference to what you said to Mrs. S. . . .MR. O. Try to say something of your own and new. I am trying tostop associations.MISS M. It was connected with what.. . .MR. O. I don't want connections, I want your own. Otherwise we canspeak for a week and get nothing. [Pause.]I have read some terrible accounts of meetings when one personspoke, a second answers a phrase out of this, a third answers one wordout of the second phrase, and the fourth answers a word out of thethird phrase, and it goes like this. It is necessary to learn to stopassociations. It cannot go on for ever, there are other things. [Longpause.]Mrs. K. and Mrs. J., will you repeat your questions?MRS. J. As I understand it, one of the principles of esotericism is thatthe teaching must be passed from one conscious being to another. ManNo. 6 gets it from man No. 7, 5 from 6 and so on. And after thegeneral principles of the work are received it is necessary to keep theline unbroken. I ask this because it seems as if the line was brokenwhen you left G.MR. O. Who asked this question?MRS. K. First Mrs. M. and then Mrs. J.MR. O. Is there anything else?MRS. K. No, I think this is all.MR. O. You mix things up in a very wrong way—facts and principles.One thing—that No. 6 learns from No. 7 etc.—this is right from onepoint of view. But do you know people 6 or 7? So why ask about them?This is general principle. But the question is why you cannot learn from 5,6 or 7. So you mixed something, which explains one principle, with quitea different thing. What has all this to do with G. and me? I was workingwith G. until I saw a difference in him. This has nothing to do withesotericism. When I found that I co uld not work with him any longer Ileft him. That is all. This was all explained. You can only judge by theknowledge of a person and not by his being. The idea is that one can haveonly such a teacher as one deserves. But only so long as he is teacher. If heceases to be teacher—well—then why talk about it? I went to G. in 1916,but in 1918 I found that I could not continue to work with him.In 1922 again I started to work with him, and again I came tothe conclusion that it was impossible to continue, and in 1924 you
emember that I spoke to you about this and said: 'I may be wrongbut I had to part with him'....MRS. J. [interrupting] That is all.. ..MR. O. What do you mean? Why do you ask such questions? And theninterrupt? Why these philosophical questions? I can never understandthem. I always explained that you may meet with a teacher but nevermeet with a principle.MRS. J. But the work is carried on with certain principles? One wantsto relate principles to facts.MR. O. Please relate them.MRS. J. It does not seem to correspond. I know that you said thisabout No. 6 man learning from 7, etc.MR. O. But why don't you listen? I said that you learn from a manwho knows more than you. How can you know what man No. 7 islike? He wears no special uniform! Practical! Practical! I met G.—How can I know what number man he is? I know only one thing; thathe knows more than I of certain principles. He changed all theseprinciples and I parted from him. Why introduce the idea of manNo. 4, 5 and 6 which have nothing to do with that. [Not taken downfurther.]MISS G. I find it very difficult to see the value of these principles whichcannot be translated into fact.MR. O. Can anyone explain?MR. W. I should have thought that all principles are facts, only ondifferent scales.MR. O. Yes! But in this particular case it would be necessary for MissG. to distinguish between man No. 4, 5 and 6.MISS G. No, I did not mean this.MR. O. Then why speak in this way?MISS G. Because I hear principles spoken of in this system.MR. O. We cannot change level of being. Man can change only by hisknowledge. Suppose you meet someone who says he is man No. 7,how can you distinguish? So why speak of this apart from principles?There are rings round Saturn. Because you cannot see them, it doesnot mean that they do not exist. In reality, if all this exists as we thinkit does, then certainly it must be an uninterrupted line. If ideas reallydo come from esoteric sources, then certainly there must be a line. Butwhere is the question? As I said before, [I] can guarantee nothing, but
Page 1 and 2: A record of some of the meetings he
Page 3: meaning, indicated by the smallest
Page 6 and 7: Thursday. August 20th 1931.MR. O. I
Page 8 and 9: MISS G. When you say someone still
Page 10 and 11: MR. W. For oneself?MR. O. Yes, but
Page 12 and 13: MRS. M. Can I put it another way?MR
Page 14 and 15: MR. M. But you must believe somethi
Page 18 and 19: I know these ideas cannot be found
Page 20 and 21: Wednesday. January 16th 1935.Ray of
Page 22 and 23: they develop one from another. We t
Page 24 and 25: Wednesday. January 9th 1935. Thursd
Page 26 and 27: nearest to us is earth. All planets
Page 28: Thursday. January 24th 1935.It is a
Page 34 and 35: impressions above H48 are not a rul
Page 36 and 37: Thursday. February 28th 1935.MR. O.
Page 38 and 39: MR. R. May one use this system to u
Page 40 and 41: mystery about it, I want to give yo
Page 42 and 43: Q . Are we to only ask people who a
Page 44 and 45: exception of quite extreme cases, e
Page 46 and 47: view; at the same time, by studying
Page 48 and 49: line. This is the beginning of the
Page 50 and 51: Q . If there is no not-weakness, ho
Page 52 and 53: sophical schools. But ordinarily a
Page 54 and 55: think that man can reincarnate. Chr
Page 56 and 57: MR. R. About laws that we can be fr
Page 58 and 59: MR. H. Mr. O. said that we live bel
Page 60 and 61: MR. L. I notice that I am often irr
Page 62: take an analogy on a smaller scale.
Page 65 and 66: MR. O. I don't know. I have the rig
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MR. O. Maybe. We cannot take them a
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give up, there is no will. Another
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it is only influences D. But you ca
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MR. O. Certainly quite different. T
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MRS. H. Doesn't a real change of at
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MRS. W. You spoke of the dangers of
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MR. O. You can work to come into co
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get rid of these unpleasant emotion
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our own weaknesses, and if we know
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MR. O. Truth exists without us, but
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MR. C. Does inner octave mean that
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(our ray). We take only the Absolut
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MR. O. I don't know. Many things ca
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Thursday. March 19th 1936.MISS C. I
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MR. L. What is evil? .MR. O. What i
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that he wanted to go to Italy on a
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MR. O. That is not the reason. Even
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not the purely conventional evil, b
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speaking, if you mean instinctive c
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You cannot begin with 'doing'. Even
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Question about triads.MR. O. ... Wi
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***MR. D. A question about art.MR.
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We will represent the Absolute by a
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MR. N. But there are still mechanic
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MR. O. It means the general weakeni
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looks so difficult when it is expla
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eader will never be able to find th
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This shows the beginning of a view
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MR. D. Could such facts as these be
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certain rules and conditions. If on
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On the technical side the formation
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MR. O. This is a subject for conver
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MR. O. At present we cannot do much
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MISS W. I feel that we don't rememb
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MR. O. About St. Paul it is necessa
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can help, but it cannot, by itself,
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talks be necessary, why is school n
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MR. C. It is difficult to see wheth
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MRS. A . I understood Mr. O. to say
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MR. O. You mean unsuccessful?MR. P
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Monday. October 18th 1937.MR. O. Tr
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this, or the same, and also others.
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Thursday. October 28th 1937.[Descri
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understand the necessity of objecti
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MR. O. No, he is taking no responsi
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comes to us through so many transla
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the same way which leads to objecti
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the beginning. Something happens—
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How does one accept that in our wor
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Thursday. January 6th 1938. (Warwic
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also determines action. But if you
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MR. O. There are many laws. Certain
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We can pass differently the time in
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Thursday. January 13th 1938. (Warwi
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opposites—splendour and misery, d
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MRS. D. Can criminal energy be used
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MRS. F. Should one try to direct en
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MR. O I meant if you do not identif
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Monday. January 17th 1938.MR. O. In
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this activity, try to see all that
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Thursday. January 20th 1938. (Warwi
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MR. F. What is the significance oth
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what size is the picture, what is t
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part of emotional centre. How does
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do it. Like if you have to make the
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MR. A . What is the fundamental con
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think they can; they will describe
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work, the answer is best revealed w
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terms It is, however, possible to b
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normal sleep, but you cannot lose m
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one definition. First each must be
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We understand differences of object
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MR. A . As soon as a man throws him
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ordinary state, we cannot speak exc
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igger scale, you know. We are not t
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Thursday. February 3rd 1938. (Warwi
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the problem, not change your action
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Killing a man, does that belong to
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incomplete development which does n
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not principle. We can distinguish m
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MR O. How can I explain? Many thing
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MR. S. Does self-remembering help o
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Does a destructive action start wit
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MR. O. We may talk about scales lat
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who call themselves Yogis—some ju
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MR. O. Certainly different types co
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MR. O. In the sense of expanding, d
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MR. A . I have never detected any l
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Tuesday. March 1st 1938. (Warwick G
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three notes of a cosmic octave What
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example, an advertisement) or I ove
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only requires initial effort to beg
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MISS B If you sit down and try to t
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MR. O. At the same time, they are d
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MR. O. We do not speak about oursel
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y thought? For example, if I am thi
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of accumulation is very complicated
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You must understand that I would li
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Thursday. March 17th 1938. (Warwick
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MR. J. Did Mr. O. say last time tha
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MR. P . Does not power to invent th
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[Questions from Thursday, March 9th
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MR. O. It is too difficult to speak
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MR O Here again, all I can say is t
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late results and eliminate wrong ac
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Again, if you ask this question in
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MR. O. No, no. I do not know where
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MR. H. How much is known about the
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MR. R. There are certain religious
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MR. M. But did not you yourself con
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MR. O. Yes. That was from the ordin
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School cannot be mechanical, so it
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MR. O. They eat different worms.MRS
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and the result of outside stimuli,
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een a negative emotion, for how cou
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talking about coming to lectures an
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five-dimensional world, and the que
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instance, its curvature, the three
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will not be good either. There is n
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it is and suppose they were made li
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natural laws from ordinary deductio
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we cannot use conscience, cannot fe
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certain extent, but not sufficientl
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whereas the influence on masses of
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strength. Then after some time agai
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MISS L. Does emotional centre take
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MR. O. It depends on the octave aga
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work will help another. You have oc
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MR. O. In asking a question like th
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incompatible with the one you want
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can never control two or three cent
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MISS R. Is the desire to dress well
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doesn't care for knowledge—in any
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MR. C. Is such an inequality, if pr
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Perhaps it is possible to explain w
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organization. This formulation abou
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was simply your imagination that di
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it meets all sorts of matters, whic
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MR. O. That shows shocks. One produ
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MR. O. I will say when we come to t
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MR. O. I don't follow.MISS C. It se
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MR. M. Is there a chemical change w
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MR. O. No, it means simply some con
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MR H I have been arriving at my off
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quite personal; there are not two p
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an action happen, or are the three
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all organic life, then certainly ma
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Monday. July 25th 1938. (Warwick Ga
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Accident'. I can see 'cause and eff
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takes place. It is not only actual
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way, you will have to explain to ne
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or wrong or not belonging to it, an
Page 373 and 374:
MR. O. For many reasons. It is diff
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MR. H. What part does the negative
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I am persuaded that there is someth
Page 379 and 380:
MISS M . I ask these questions beca
Page 381 and 382:
MR D . Is there a danger of negativ
Page 383 and 384:
M R . J . What did you mean by 'mec
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personality If one fails it is beca
Page 387 and 388:
only make us more blind, but which,
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Tuesday. October 18th 1938.[Written
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ut they bring other people, and tho
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MR. O. Just individually.Q . I mean
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there were certain moments when the
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MR. O That is only a metaphor.MR. W
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y your own self. But there is no di
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mean that from the point of view of
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Incomplete record. [?] End of Janua
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thinking. Considering is a useless
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MR. M. Am I right in thinking that
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MR. O. No, there is nothing to worr
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theories. Then only when we come to
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The sun is one of the suns of the M
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all on the same level, but they mus
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Sunday. October 15th 1939. (Lyne.)M
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understand the situation. You can d
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work, school-work. Certainly it was
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of things by studying questions lik
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same errors, the same states, quite
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these features. They play a certain
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lunacy in ourselves, and the creati
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itself. It also seems that I am mor
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never seem to have enough material
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MR. O. Well, try; if you have somet
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avoid it and you will see exactly t
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proper uses of formatory apparatus
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MR E It is possible, isn't it, to h
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Next time I will try and come at th
Page 445 and 446:
Tuesday. June 10th 1941. (New York.
Page 447 and 448:
MRS. D. Is that 48 in the brain? [R
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MRS. D. What do you mean by a schoo
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Wednesday. June 11th 1941. (New Yor
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MR. O. Certainly, yes.MRS. C. What
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MR. O. Yes, but one cannot find tru
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Page 459 and 460:
Thursday. June 19th 1941. (New York
Page 461 and 462:
MR. N. You can't relate it to the o
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Tuesday. June 24th 1941. (New York.
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MR. O. I don't know. I can speak on
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MR. O. Yes, no question about that.
Page 469 and 470:
Page 471 and 472:
it doesn't happen all at once. Afte
Page 473 and 474:
MISS Q . Is the power of mental tel
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MRS. P. Does the energy that comes
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Thursday. July l0th 1941. (New York
Page 479 and 480:
MRS. B. Do you do all three at the
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Friday. July 11th 1941. (New York.)
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deception in imagination. Many lazy
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MR. F. But didn't you say, sir, tha
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MR. O. Oh, many other things. First
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is like another brain and quick—v
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Thursday. July 17th 1941. (New York
Page 493 and 494:
MR. O. There are two forms of wrong
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Tuesday. July 22nd 1941. (New York.
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Wednesday. July 23rd 1941. (New Yor
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MR. O. I merely based it on the exa
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Thursday. July 24th 1941. (New York
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Tuesday. July 29th 1941. (New York.
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MR. B. Why do centres interfere wit
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Tuesday. August 5th 1941. (New York
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MR. S. Trying to think of yourself,
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MR. O. Try to look at it from the p
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MRS. F. How can one send help ahead
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the cause and reason for it through
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thought most people were dead, but
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MR. O. We speak about schools which
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MRS. P. Have we the right to assume
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MR. O. Maybe, in a small way. But i
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Only when one comes under school in
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Wednesday. August 4th 1943. (New Yo
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MR. H. Is it possible to make a liv
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MRS. T. In the example you describe
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MISS O It has no relation to what o
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MR C Is it possible to stimulate co
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shock is necessary for further refi
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MR. B. It is possible to observe an
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This brings us to influences. Influ
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ings the development of consciousne
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unusual thing happens, you may feel
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think about the possibility of awak
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Wednesday. October 6th 1943. (New Y
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MISS R. But if one could, would it
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MISS H . I never thought of 'consid
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Wednesday. November 17th 1943. (New
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MR. O. When you try to remember you
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and people repeat it without knowin
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certain proficiency in the control
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MR. O. I think everyone can have as
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MR. O. But what does waste mean? We
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MR. O. Yes, it controls the necessi
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MR. O. Because we don't know enough
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Memory (From New York Meetings 1944
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friend who came to meet me at the G
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musical impressions one learns musi
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Q. Is there a way of trying to make
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By reincarnation you mean in time
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find one's favourite imagination. C
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But this changes all ideas of recur
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Monday. February 24th 1947. (Colet
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MR. O. NO.Q . Why are we here?MR. O
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MR. M. May I explain?MR. O. [to Mis
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Do you mean what we feel that we kn
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Q . I find that the answers are eve
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MR. O. Yes. Why not? You may . . .
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Wednesday. March 5th 1947. (Colet G
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MR. O. Well, who could say that?MIS
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MR. H. Is a realization of where we
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MR. O. [to Miss Q.] Well, do you un
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MISS Q. NO.MR. O. Then you remember
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MR. R. By trying and trying, one ca
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MISS C. I do not belong to myself.
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Wednesday. March 12th 1947. (Colet
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MR. O. For some people.MRS. U. Is i
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MISS I. Have there been any real qu
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MR. O. Maybe, maybe not. I don't se
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MISS I. Are our questions too theor
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MR. O. You must try.MRS. F. How can
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MR. JA. I feel there is one part in
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MR. O. I can only envy this man or
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that I have no questions. I tried t
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view—the personal one—and is it
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MR. O. Well, you have to do somethi
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Wednesday. May 21st 1947. (Colet Ga
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MR. O. When you remember? Quite rig
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MRS. v. This remembering myself you
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MISS Q . Yes.MRS. A . I find that a
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MRS R. You say we must bring more m
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There are many things that you want
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