A Record of Meetings held by P.D. Ouspensky - HolyBooks.com

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MISS v. For someone in the system does sin consist in not making aneffort to remember oneself when one realizes that the effort is necessaryand possible?MR. O. No, better not to introduce unnecessary words. This wordbelongs to the religious way.MISS C. I have tried to think why evil cannot be conscious, but I find Ido not really understand what is meant by evil. If good and bad aremerely relative, how can we know that what seems to us evil is evil inreality? Should we regard as evil simply that which is bad for our aim?MR. O. You tried to think. It is the wrong way, you cannot find it bythinking, but only by experimenting. Yes, you can say that evil is whatis bad for our aim and nothing more. Even that is already a big stepfrom the ordinary idea of evil based on belief or on imitation. Youalready decide yourself what is evil for you. Actions that definitely goagainst aim can only be mechanical; many of them interrupt youradvance towards your aim. You can only understand evil in relation toyourself; then, when you have understood it, you can understand it inrelation to a group of people, a larger group of people, a still larger,and so on.MISS C. I do not understand how war could ever be good, since italways seems to be the expression of negative emotions and entailsmaiming and killing people. Perhaps it is only because I can see only apart, and not the whole, and attach too much importance to suffering.Are there any historical examples of wars that were good? If so, howwere they good?MR. O. It is a very difficult question. It is necessary to speak very much,speak about history, about what was the aim of a particular historicalperiod, about whether a war made the existence of schools possible orcreated situations which made it more difficult for schools to exist.Before I could answer we must agree about the terms we use, then itwould be possible to go through times of history and see which warswere better and which were worse, and then perhaps go further. Thereare political situations that are more favourable for schools and othersthat are less favourable. Suppose a war creates a better situation, then it isuseful. There are many other ways to approach this subject, only wemust first speak about many principles. I want you to ask such questions,only I must first know what you know about different periods of history,how you regard, for instance, the nineteenth century, etc.
MR. L. What is evil? .MR. O. What is against awakening, against our becoming one, etc.MR. L. Is the aim of consciousness to be in complete control of themachine, and is evil the outcome of negative emotions and identificationand all that is mechanical and could not exist for conscious man?MR . O. That is in general. In yourself you find features and tendencies thatstand against consciousness, that help resistance. That is evil in oneself.You will see that evil can be manifested only mechanically. A long time isnecessary to understand that fully. You may be mistaken, you may take forevil what is not evil, or take something mechanical for conscious.Referring to a previous question—why it is difficult to speak abouthistorical processes is that people generally mistake two things. First,in history there are events behind which there is a conscious intentionthat they regard as mechanical, and, second, there are quite mechanicalevents that are regarded as conscious. That is why we must agreeabout terms first.MR. L. Is the temptation of Christ by Satan an analogy of the fact thatthere can be no conscious evil?MR. O. No, we cannot take examples from the New Testament. Itmust be a subject of a special study, for there are too many meaningsin what is said in the New Testament. Although, if you like, we mayspeak about it, only we must agree how to take Satan. If we take himas the spirit of this world—then it is the temptation of mechanicalness.MR. L. What is the feeling of remorse which comes from havingcommitted an action which one feels certain in oneself is wrong? Is itconscience?MR. O. No, conscience is different, stronger, more all-embracing. Buteven if one remembers the remorses it may be useful. Only it isnecessary to know on what the remorse is based.MRS. R. As to why there can be no conscious evil, is it becauseconscious man can have no negative emotions such as hate, jealousy,revenge, greed, etc.?MR. O. Not because of that. You must take it practically, not philosophically.Try to do what you consider evil consciously, and you will seethat you cannot.MISS H . How can I help the part of me that is interested in the systemto develop and the other parts to get weaker, so that they don't
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A record of some of the meetings he
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meaning, indicated by the smallest
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Thursday. August 20th 1931.MR. O. I
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MISS G. When you say someone still
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MR. W. For oneself?MR. O. Yes, but
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MRS. M. Can I put it another way?MR
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MR. M. But you must believe somethi
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MISS M. In reference to what you sa
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I know these ideas cannot be found
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Wednesday. January 16th 1935.Ray of
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they develop one from another. We t
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Wednesday. January 9th 1935. Thursd
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nearest to us is earth. All planets
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Thursday. January 24th 1935.It is a
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impressions above H48 are not a rul
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Thursday. February 28th 1935.MR. O.
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MR. R. May one use this system to u
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mystery about it, I want to give yo
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Q . Are we to only ask people who a
Page 44 and 45: exception of quite extreme cases, e
Page 46 and 47: view; at the same time, by studying
Page 48 and 49: line. This is the beginning of the
Page 50 and 51: Q . If there is no not-weakness, ho
Page 52 and 53: sophical schools. But ordinarily a
Page 54 and 55: think that man can reincarnate. Chr
Page 56 and 57: MR. R. About laws that we can be fr
Page 58 and 59: MR. H. Mr. O. said that we live bel
Page 60 and 61: MR. L. I notice that I am often irr
Page 62: take an analogy on a smaller scale.
Page 65 and 66: MR. O. I don't know. I have the rig
Page 67 and 68: MR. O. Maybe. We cannot take them a
Page 69 and 70: give up, there is no will. Another
Page 71 and 72: it is only influences D. But you ca
Page 73 and 74: MR. O. Certainly quite different. T
Page 75 and 76: MRS. H. Doesn't a real change of at
Page 77 and 78: MRS. W. You spoke of the dangers of
Page 79 and 80: MR. O. You can work to come into co
Page 81 and 82: get rid of these unpleasant emotion
Page 83 and 84: our own weaknesses, and if we know
Page 85 and 86: MR. O. Truth exists without us, but
Page 87 and 88: MR. C. Does inner octave mean that
Page 89 and 90: (our ray). We take only the Absolut
Page 91 and 92: MR. O. I don't know. Many things ca
Page 93: Thursday. March 19th 1936.MISS C. I
Page 97 and 98: that he wanted to go to Italy on a
Page 99 and 100: MR. O. That is not the reason. Even
Page 101 and 102: not the purely conventional evil, b
Page 103 and 104: speaking, if you mean instinctive c
Page 105 and 106: You cannot begin with 'doing'. Even
Page 107 and 108: Question about triads.MR. O. ... Wi
Page 109 and 110: ***MR. D. A question about art.MR.
Page 111: We will represent the Absolute by a
Page 114 and 115: MR. N. But there are still mechanic
Page 116 and 117: MR. O. It means the general weakeni
Page 118 and 119: looks so difficult when it is expla
Page 120 and 121: eader will never be able to find th
Page 122 and 123: This shows the beginning of a view
Page 124 and 125: MR. D. Could such facts as these be
Page 126 and 127: certain rules and conditions. If on
Page 128 and 129: On the technical side the formation
Page 130 and 131: MR. O. This is a subject for conver
Page 132 and 133: MR. O. At present we cannot do much
Page 134 and 135: MISS W. I feel that we don't rememb
Page 136 and 137: MR. O. About St. Paul it is necessa
Page 138 and 139: can help, but it cannot, by itself,
Page 140 and 141: talks be necessary, why is school n
Page 142 and 143: MR. C. It is difficult to see wheth
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MRS. A . I understood Mr. O. to say
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MR. O. You mean unsuccessful?MR. P
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Monday. October 18th 1937.MR. O. Tr
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this, or the same, and also others.
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Thursday. October 28th 1937.[Descri
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understand the necessity of objecti
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MR. O. No, he is taking no responsi
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comes to us through so many transla
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the same way which leads to objecti
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the beginning. Something happens—
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How does one accept that in our wor
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Thursday. January 6th 1938. (Warwic
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also determines action. But if you
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MR. O. There are many laws. Certain
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We can pass differently the time in
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Thursday. January 13th 1938. (Warwi
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opposites—splendour and misery, d
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MRS. D. Can criminal energy be used
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MRS. F. Should one try to direct en
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MR. O I meant if you do not identif
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Monday. January 17th 1938.MR. O. In
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this activity, try to see all that
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Thursday. January 20th 1938. (Warwi
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MR. F. What is the significance oth
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what size is the picture, what is t
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part of emotional centre. How does
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do it. Like if you have to make the
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MR. A . What is the fundamental con
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think they can; they will describe
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work, the answer is best revealed w
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terms It is, however, possible to b
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normal sleep, but you cannot lose m
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one definition. First each must be
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We understand differences of object
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MR. A . As soon as a man throws him
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ordinary state, we cannot speak exc
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igger scale, you know. We are not t
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Thursday. February 3rd 1938. (Warwi
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the problem, not change your action
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Killing a man, does that belong to
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incomplete development which does n
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not principle. We can distinguish m
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MR O. How can I explain? Many thing
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MR. S. Does self-remembering help o
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Does a destructive action start wit
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MR. O. We may talk about scales lat
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who call themselves Yogis—some ju
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MR. O. Certainly different types co
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MR. O. In the sense of expanding, d
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MR. A . I have never detected any l
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Tuesday. March 1st 1938. (Warwick G
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three notes of a cosmic octave What
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example, an advertisement) or I ove
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only requires initial effort to beg
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MISS B If you sit down and try to t
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MR. O. At the same time, they are d
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MR. O. We do not speak about oursel
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y thought? For example, if I am thi
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of accumulation is very complicated
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You must understand that I would li
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Thursday. March 17th 1938. (Warwick
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MR. J. Did Mr. O. say last time tha
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MR. P . Does not power to invent th
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[Questions from Thursday, March 9th
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MR. O. It is too difficult to speak
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MR O Here again, all I can say is t
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late results and eliminate wrong ac
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Again, if you ask this question in
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MR. O. No, no. I do not know where
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MR. H. How much is known about the
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MR. R. There are certain religious
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MR. M. But did not you yourself con
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MR. O. Yes. That was from the ordin
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School cannot be mechanical, so it
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MR. O. They eat different worms.MRS
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and the result of outside stimuli,
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een a negative emotion, for how cou
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talking about coming to lectures an
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five-dimensional world, and the que
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instance, its curvature, the three
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will not be good either. There is n
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it is and suppose they were made li
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natural laws from ordinary deductio
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we cannot use conscience, cannot fe
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certain extent, but not sufficientl
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whereas the influence on masses of
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strength. Then after some time agai
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MISS L. Does emotional centre take
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MR. O. It depends on the octave aga
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work will help another. You have oc
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MR. O. In asking a question like th
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incompatible with the one you want
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can never control two or three cent
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MISS R. Is the desire to dress well
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doesn't care for knowledge—in any
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MR. C. Is such an inequality, if pr
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Perhaps it is possible to explain w
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organization. This formulation abou
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was simply your imagination that di
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it meets all sorts of matters, whic
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MR. O. That shows shocks. One produ
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MR. O. I will say when we come to t
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MR. O. I don't follow.MISS C. It se
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MR. M. Is there a chemical change w
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MR. O. No, it means simply some con
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MR H I have been arriving at my off
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quite personal; there are not two p
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an action happen, or are the three
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all organic life, then certainly ma
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Monday. July 25th 1938. (Warwick Ga
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Accident'. I can see 'cause and eff
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takes place. It is not only actual
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way, you will have to explain to ne
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or wrong or not belonging to it, an
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MR. O. For many reasons. It is diff
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MR. H. What part does the negative
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I am persuaded that there is someth
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MISS M . I ask these questions beca
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MR D . Is there a danger of negativ
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M R . J . What did you mean by 'mec
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personality If one fails it is beca
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only make us more blind, but which,
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Tuesday. October 18th 1938.[Written
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ut they bring other people, and tho
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MR. O. Just individually.Q . I mean
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there were certain moments when the
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MR. O That is only a metaphor.MR. W
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y your own self. But there is no di
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mean that from the point of view of
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Incomplete record. [?] End of Janua
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thinking. Considering is a useless
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MR. M. Am I right in thinking that
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MR. O. No, there is nothing to worr
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theories. Then only when we come to
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The sun is one of the suns of the M
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all on the same level, but they mus
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Sunday. October 15th 1939. (Lyne.)M
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understand the situation. You can d
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work, school-work. Certainly it was
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of things by studying questions lik
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same errors, the same states, quite
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these features. They play a certain
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lunacy in ourselves, and the creati
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itself. It also seems that I am mor
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never seem to have enough material
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MR. O. Well, try; if you have somet
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avoid it and you will see exactly t
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proper uses of formatory apparatus
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MR E It is possible, isn't it, to h
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Next time I will try and come at th
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Tuesday. June 10th 1941. (New York.
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MRS. D. Is that 48 in the brain? [R
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MRS. D. What do you mean by a schoo
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Wednesday. June 11th 1941. (New Yor
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MR. O. Certainly, yes.MRS. C. What
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MR. O. Yes, but one cannot find tru
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Thursday. June 19th 1941. (New York
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MR. N. You can't relate it to the o
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Tuesday. June 24th 1941. (New York.
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MR. O. I don't know. I can speak on
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MR. O. Yes, no question about that.
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it doesn't happen all at once. Afte
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MISS Q . Is the power of mental tel
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MRS. P. Does the energy that comes
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Thursday. July l0th 1941. (New York
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MRS. B. Do you do all three at the
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Friday. July 11th 1941. (New York.)
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deception in imagination. Many lazy
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MR. F. But didn't you say, sir, tha
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MR. O. Oh, many other things. First
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is like another brain and quick—v
Page 491 and 492:
Thursday. July 17th 1941. (New York
Page 493 and 494:
MR. O. There are two forms of wrong
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Tuesday. July 22nd 1941. (New York.
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Wednesday. July 23rd 1941. (New Yor
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MR. O. I merely based it on the exa
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Thursday. July 24th 1941. (New York
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Tuesday. July 29th 1941. (New York.
Page 505 and 506:
MR. B. Why do centres interfere wit
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Tuesday. August 5th 1941. (New York
Page 509 and 510:
MR. S. Trying to think of yourself,
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MR. O. Try to look at it from the p
Page 513 and 514:
MRS. F. How can one send help ahead
Page 515 and 516:
the cause and reason for it through
Page 517 and 518:
thought most people were dead, but
Page 519 and 520:
MR. O. We speak about schools which
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MRS. P. Have we the right to assume
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MR. O. Maybe, in a small way. But i
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Only when one comes under school in
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Wednesday. August 4th 1943. (New Yo
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MR. H. Is it possible to make a liv
Page 531 and 532:
MRS. T. In the example you describe
Page 533 and 534:
MISS O It has no relation to what o
Page 535 and 536:
MR C Is it possible to stimulate co
Page 537 and 538:
shock is necessary for further refi
Page 539 and 540:
MR. B. It is possible to observe an
Page 541 and 542:
This brings us to influences. Influ
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ings the development of consciousne
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unusual thing happens, you may feel
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think about the possibility of awak
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Wednesday. October 6th 1943. (New Y
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MISS R. But if one could, would it
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MISS H . I never thought of 'consid
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Wednesday. November 17th 1943. (New
Page 557 and 558:
MR. O. When you try to remember you
Page 559 and 560:
and people repeat it without knowin
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certain proficiency in the control
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MR. O. I think everyone can have as
Page 565 and 566:
MR. O. But what does waste mean? We
Page 567 and 568:
MR. O. Yes, it controls the necessi
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MR. O. Because we don't know enough
Page 571 and 572:
Memory (From New York Meetings 1944
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friend who came to meet me at the G
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musical impressions one learns musi
Page 577 and 578:
Q. Is there a way of trying to make
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By reincarnation you mean in time
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find one's favourite imagination. C
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But this changes all ideas of recur
Page 585 and 586:
Monday. February 24th 1947. (Colet
Page 587 and 588:
MR. O. NO.Q . Why are we here?MR. O
Page 589 and 590:
MR. M. May I explain?MR. O. [to Mis
Page 591 and 592:
Do you mean what we feel that we kn
Page 593 and 594:
Q . I find that the answers are eve
Page 595 and 596:
MR. O. Yes. Why not? You may . . .
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Wednesday. March 5th 1947. (Colet G
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MR. O. Well, who could say that?MIS
Page 601 and 602:
MR. H. Is a realization of where we
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MR. O. [to Miss Q.] Well, do you un
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MISS Q. NO.MR. O. Then you remember
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MR. R. By trying and trying, one ca
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MISS C. I do not belong to myself.
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Wednesday. March 12th 1947. (Colet
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MR. O. For some people.MRS. U. Is i
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MISS I. Have there been any real qu
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MR. O. Maybe, maybe not. I don't se
Page 619 and 620:
MISS I. Are our questions too theor
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MR. O. You must try.MRS. F. How can
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MR. JA. I feel there is one part in
Page 625 and 626:
MR. O. I can only envy this man or
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that I have no questions. I tried t
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view—the personal one—and is it
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MR. O. Well, you have to do somethi
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Wednesday. May 21st 1947. (Colet Ga
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MR. O. When you remember? Quite rig
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MRS. v. This remembering myself you
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MISS Q . Yes.MRS. A . I find that a
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MRS R. You say we must bring more m
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There are many things that you want
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