A Record of Meetings held by P.D. Ouspensky - HolyBooks.com

MR. O. Truth exists without us, but we can know truth only inobjective state of consciousness. Not absolute truth, but simply—truth(truth does not need qualifications). In our state we cannot know truthwith the exception of very simple things, and even then we makemistakes. It would be very good if we were in a state of objectiveconsciousness, for then I would show you all the examples of truth.But in our state we must start with lying. We cannot study truth. Butwe can study lying.MR. R. Can a man be said to be lying if he tells or teaches that which istrue for him to those for whom it is not true? If so, all is lying that isnot absolute truth?MR. O. It is a little complicated. The question is—does he know whathe teaches or does he simply imagine things. It is possible to verifythis. Many people teach about things they cannot know. There arethings we can know and things we cannot know. If people in the samestate of consciousness as ourselves speak about things they cannotknow, then obviously they lie.MRS. R. If I felt sure, as Mr. O. does, that there is higher consciousness,and that this system comes from that source—then I could understandthe desire to work on levels 2 and 3 and also the possibility of someform of permanent life. But being told so does not make me know.MR. O. Even in your present state you can find in yourself verydifferent levels of consciousness. If you see them, you can see thepossibility of still higher states. This can be understood without anynecessity to verify the third and fourth states of consciousness.MRS. R. Is the knowledge of higher consciousness, and the certaintythat this system could only come from such a source, attained by whatwe find in ourselves, by self-remembering and by no other means?MR. O. Yes, this is the central figure. But the conviction that the ideas ofthe system come from a higher source can be attained in another way. Ifyou cannot find these ideas in science, they must come from a differentsource. But the foundation of all is to find different states of consciousness.MRS. S. Can Mr. O. tell us something about humour? Is humour apoint of contact of two ideas that are usually very far apart, and whichcentres does it affect?MR. O. Humour, sense of the comic, begins in the intellectual centre.In our state it is one of the higher faculties, but it does not go further.In higher centres there is no laughter.