A Record of Meetings held by P.D. Ouspensky - HolyBooks.com

in two cases. First when it is intentionally done like that, for thepurpose of saving energy or something like that. Secondly, whenwrong methods are used, wrong school. There are many schoolswhich can produce higher states of consciousness only with a conditionof physical half-paralysis, trance. Generally this is wrong, because itcannot be done otherwise. Sometimes this can be a quite right waywhen they can do it this way and in another way.Sometimes to the casual observer it may look different from physicalalertness.MR. H. I find relaxing a help in breaking away from identification. ButI heard that there was a wrong way and a right way to relax. CouldMr O. tell me if there is a special technique?MR. O. Yes, it is a science. You may know it is necessary to relax tolose identification, but just cannot relax. I would say there is one rightway and ten thousand wrong ways! Like many other things. Yes, it hasto be learnt specially.MR. H. Last week Mr. O. said that when connected with highercentres we could see things with our ordinary eyes which we didn'tordinarily see Is it also possible to hear things in these states?MR. O. Probably.MISS R. Is killing necessarily a criminal activity?MR. O. No, you cannot put it like that. It would be wrong to say noand wrong to say yes. It depends in relation to what you take it.MR. F. Mr. O. says we are incapable of 'doing'. Does he mean by thiswe are incapable of permanent, controlled action?MR. O. Certainly we are incapable. Otherwise why come here?MISS M . Can one find one's chief feature oneself?MR. O. Sometimes one can, theoretically, but one never does. Even ifone is told, one does not believe it at once, one cannot accept it. Itlooks quite absurd, impossible. That is why one never can find it.MR. F. Mr. O. has said we have to observe our 'I's for a long timebefore we can do anything else. How can we know when it is time totake the next step? Is it not true that all we can do is to try to stopthings?MR. O. You will know. You go on and you will see more, you willknow where to start other things. And I can judge by your questions.MISS M . Mr. O. said it was not possible to make comparisons of thingson different scales. I don't know what kind of scale he had in mind.