A Record of Meetings held by P.D. Ouspensky - HolyBooks.com

Thursday. July 17th 1941. (New York.)MRS. R. In saying the Lord's Prayer over and over I hear otherthoughts behind.MR. O. You can't help it.MRS. W. Sometimes in saying the prayer I seem to hear the numbers inmy chest and the sayings in my head, is that imagination?MR. O. Yes, but it doesn't matter again. It is imperative only to do itLater—much later, you can do something with it.MRS. K. Is this [enneagram] a very ancient symbol?MR. O. They say so. I couldn't find it in any books. Ennea is likepenta—so it means nine.MRS. K. In the New Model you mentioned the dervishes. Did theymake a figure of the Ray of Creation?MR. O. No, no. They didn't make definite figures. They turned roundthemselves and round the man in the middle.M R . W What are we supposed to do with the diagram?MR. O. Oh, nothing at present. If something comes to your mind wecan discuss it.MR. W. I would like it if you said something about self-rememberingand self-observation.MR. O. I can say nothing about it, because I already said all that can besaid. Self-observation is simply a method of self-study. And it's onlywhen you want to know yourself and want to study yourself that itbecomes serious.MRS K. Do individuality, will and consciousness operate through thehigher centres?MR. O. Those are not centres—will is not a centre. Individuality is nota centre. Centre is a machine. Those are manifestations.MRS. K. This is very different from what we were taught.MR. O. I can't help it, you know. This is what we learned from thevery beginning.MR. W. You can't really say that individuality is a function?