A Record of Meetings held by P.D. Ouspensky - HolyBooks.com

Wednesday. August 4th 1943. (New York.)MR. B. It is difficult to recognize states of 'mingling' apart from itsplace in 'identification', yet so much of one's life consists of mingling.MR. O. What does mingling mean?MR. B. I can see that stopping general identification in the order andchange of concept given thus far is necessary for change of being, butwhat of identification on a different level?MR. O. I don't understand what 'identification on a different level'means, because identification is a state in which we cannot observe.We have to start such as we are; we cannot wait for a change.MR. B. For example, the distinction between identifying with a news­item pertaining to an alleged Nazi sex-atrocity, and with a Beethovenchord progression seems infinite. One feeds undesirable emotionalgrowths, and the other can lead to a mingling with the inner substanceof life.MR. O. Yes, that may be quite true. But if we want to observe, wemust exactly get rid of this identification. Or we see only ourselves inthe centre of things.MR. B. The different speeds and strengths of impact-association­mingling vary with different subjects. Can this be studied successfullynow?MR. O. Yes. We must first try to follow the examples given, and alsouse as few words as possible.MR. B. What sort of influence was Swedenborg under?MR. O. That is his business. Maybe religious, maybe mystical. Thehistorical approach is not this way. Nobody can prove anything. Butthere are things on which we can be on surer ground—in particularreferring to schools and school systems.MR. B. In self-remembering one can observe a certain tendency of thephysical body to change position, instinctively desiring to avoid anycramped position and sit or stand balanced and unencumbered.MR. O. It has no relation to self-remembering. One must keep attention