A Record of Meetings held by P.D. Ouspensky - HolyBooks.com

We understand differences of objects, but in ordinary thinking wedo not understand difference of being. What do we learn? First that weare not one. That we are many 'I's. This fact that there are many 'I's inus on the same level; that one is not stronger than another; that there isno central 'I' in control. This the state of our being. When we begin toacquire permanent 'I' that will be another level of being. There arefour states of consciousness. We are only in two. Relative consciousness,waking sleep, this is all we have. We have to start to work in thisstate. This is our being. If we begin to work, to acquire self-consciousness,we shall have a third state and that will be different being. Allyou heard about the possibility of development, it all refers to being.MISS H . Is knowledge of what identification is []? Do yougradually understand?MR. O. Gradually, everything gradually. When first you hear about it,you do not understand. Second you find in yourself or in other peoplea very clear case of identification and then another case. You begin tocompare. Then find in yourself cases of more identification or lessidentification, then you can compare the two states. You learn everythinggradually, never anything at once.MISS M . Isn't there an element of becoming in being?MR. O. In school only. In ordinary life there is no becoming.MISS M . But if one makes any progress, one changes.MR. O. In life one does not. One can make progress in knowledgeonly; not in being. What we are, we remain. How can one change inlife? Everything is balanced. If one acquires one thing, one losesanother.MRS. S. But surely people do get better—more unselfish, kinder?MR. O. Better one side, worse another.MRS. S. But you come across people who seem to grow.MR. O. I never saw them. Maybe you are lucky, me unlucky.MRS. S. But I have seen some wonderful people.MR. O. Some kind of religious system, perhaps, but not in life. You see,very often that is why some misunderstanding happens. We do notrealise for a long time the difference between man in ordinary life andman connected with some kind of system. Without any kind of system,some kind of way, man cannot progress, he remains what he is, generallygoing down. With the help of some system he can change. The systemmust suit him. System may be very good but not suit the particular man.