A Record of Meetings held by P.D. Ouspensky - HolyBooks.com

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MRS. S. I don't understand your answer to Mr. S.'s question on discipline.You agreed with him that the discipline should be external. Ithought the only valuable kind was internal. Do you mean that youneed help?MR. O. Yes. One cannot invent discipline. You need outside help,suggestion, explanation that makes discipline comprehensible, otherwiseit will be invented. Discipline must be part of a certain task. Butby ourselves we can do nothing. We must accept certain ideas, certainmethods, and in this way we meet with discipline.MISS R. You mentioned about all being physical. Then each centre canaffect other centres and the results?MR. O. Even the Absolute is physical. Centres are physical.MISS R. Then if all is physical, what other causes could there be?MR. O. Why did you bring centres into it? The question was aboutcauses. I said you must first exhaust physical causes. Physical causesmust be understood simply. They may be psychic causes—they are alsophysical of a different materiality. But still we must make a difference.Well, it is clear.Thank God, it is not quite clear to me.MR. S. The other day I was in a situation of great excitement andemotion. It seemed altogether unreal. How is this explained?MR. O. Probably it was not unreal. Emotions are always real, that isour misfortune. But without facts I cannot say.MR. S. When I am lost in an emotion, is it because emotional centrepredominates?MR. O. No, it means identification, if you are lost in it.MR. S. The cause of the emotion seemed very real.MRS. S. Coming back to discipline. What is the weakness in selfimposeddiscipline?JMR. O. No aim. Why discipline? Why not live quietly and pleasantlywithout discipline, if there is no aim? Discipline is only justified by aim.MRS. P. Is not the desire to be a better person an aim?MR. O. Who knows what is a better person? Do you know? At the |same time it is necessary to know that one can be better or worse. Itcan be explained from aim.MRS. P. I have read frequently that when the pupil is ready, the teacherappears. .. .M R . O. Theosophical imagination. It is written in some theosophical book
and people repeat it without knowing what is 'ready' and what is 'teacher'.MRS. P. What is the meaning of 'teacher'?MR. O. One who teaches. But necessary to know first what you wantto know.MISS R. How can you know if you are asleep?MR. O. You must wake enough to know what you want. Suppose youwant to learn how to wake and I begin to teach you Russian.MISS R. How to awaken?MRS. A . Is the process of self-remembering designed to effect a tie-up,or a bridge between the thalamus and the fore-brain?MR. O. First of all, self-remembering is not a process. It is a state.What is that? I think I never saw such a word.Who knows? Don't believe the person who tells you he knows. No,we cannot explain self-remembering anatomically. But psychologicallyone can know. It is to be aware of oneself. That is not connected withany part of the brain.MRS. N. Is all emotion identification?MR. O. No, normal emotions can exist without identification. All negativeemotions must have identification. But some emotions can onlyexist without identification. If identification enters, it spoils them.MRS. N. There can be higher emotions that aren't identification?MRS. A . I have never understood how you would define the term'emotion'.MR. O. You must feel emotions. They are all pleasant or unpleasant.In older psychology books you find quite good explanations ofdivisions.MRS. v. I think I understood you to say that the Absolute was physical?Does that mean it is only physical or psychic is included?MR. O. I think you had better not mix two different things. First speakabout our own experience. We can decide between physical andpsychic causes. If I have a headache because I hit my head on the door,this is physical cause. If I have a headache as a result of too muchnegative imagining, this is psychic cause.MRS. P. Did I understand you to say that pain is a negative imaginationof the instinctive centre?MR. O. Never. Pain is pain. ... It may be. How can I say? It may beimaginary pain.MISS H . When one would reach the state where one could use the
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A record of some of the meetings he
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meaning, indicated by the smallest
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Thursday. August 20th 1931.MR. O. I
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MISS G. When you say someone still
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MR. W. For oneself?MR. O. Yes, but
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MRS. M. Can I put it another way?MR
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MR. M. But you must believe somethi
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MISS M. In reference to what you sa
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I know these ideas cannot be found
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Wednesday. January 16th 1935.Ray of
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they develop one from another. We t
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Wednesday. January 9th 1935. Thursd
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nearest to us is earth. All planets
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Thursday. January 24th 1935.It is a
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impressions above H48 are not a rul
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Thursday. February 28th 1935.MR. O.
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MR. R. May one use this system to u
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mystery about it, I want to give yo
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Q . Are we to only ask people who a
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exception of quite extreme cases, e
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view; at the same time, by studying
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line. This is the beginning of the
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Q . If there is no not-weakness, ho
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sophical schools. But ordinarily a
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think that man can reincarnate. Chr
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MR. R. About laws that we can be fr
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MR. H. Mr. O. said that we live bel
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MR. L. I notice that I am often irr
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take an analogy on a smaller scale.
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MR. O. I don't know. I have the rig
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MR. O. Maybe. We cannot take them a
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give up, there is no will. Another
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it is only influences D. But you ca
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MR. O. Certainly quite different. T
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MRS. H. Doesn't a real change of at
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MRS. W. You spoke of the dangers of
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MR. O. You can work to come into co
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get rid of these unpleasant emotion
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our own weaknesses, and if we know
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MR. O. Truth exists without us, but
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MR. C. Does inner octave mean that
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(our ray). We take only the Absolut
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MR. O. I don't know. Many things ca
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Thursday. March 19th 1936.MISS C. I
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MR. L. What is evil? .MR. O. What i
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that he wanted to go to Italy on a
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MR. O. That is not the reason. Even
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not the purely conventional evil, b
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speaking, if you mean instinctive c
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You cannot begin with 'doing'. Even
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Question about triads.MR. O. ... Wi
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***MR. D. A question about art.MR.
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We will represent the Absolute by a
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MR. N. But there are still mechanic
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MR. O. It means the general weakeni
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looks so difficult when it is expla
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eader will never be able to find th
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This shows the beginning of a view
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MR. D. Could such facts as these be
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certain rules and conditions. If on
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On the technical side the formation
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MR. O. This is a subject for conver
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MR. O. At present we cannot do much
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MISS W. I feel that we don't rememb
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MR. O. About St. Paul it is necessa
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can help, but it cannot, by itself,
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talks be necessary, why is school n
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MR. C. It is difficult to see wheth
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MRS. A . I understood Mr. O. to say
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MR. O. You mean unsuccessful?MR. P
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Monday. October 18th 1937.MR. O. Tr
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this, or the same, and also others.
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Thursday. October 28th 1937.[Descri
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understand the necessity of objecti
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MR. O. No, he is taking no responsi
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comes to us through so many transla
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the same way which leads to objecti
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the beginning. Something happens—
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How does one accept that in our wor
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Thursday. January 6th 1938. (Warwic
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also determines action. But if you
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MR. O. There are many laws. Certain
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We can pass differently the time in
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Thursday. January 13th 1938. (Warwi
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opposites—splendour and misery, d
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MRS. D. Can criminal energy be used
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MRS. F. Should one try to direct en
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MR. O I meant if you do not identif
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Monday. January 17th 1938.MR. O. In
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this activity, try to see all that
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Thursday. January 20th 1938. (Warwi
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MR. F. What is the significance oth
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what size is the picture, what is t
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part of emotional centre. How does
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do it. Like if you have to make the
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MR. A . What is the fundamental con
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think they can; they will describe
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work, the answer is best revealed w
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terms It is, however, possible to b
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normal sleep, but you cannot lose m
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one definition. First each must be
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We understand differences of object
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MR. A . As soon as a man throws him
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ordinary state, we cannot speak exc
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igger scale, you know. We are not t
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Thursday. February 3rd 1938. (Warwi
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the problem, not change your action
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Killing a man, does that belong to
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incomplete development which does n
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not principle. We can distinguish m
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MR O. How can I explain? Many thing
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MR. S. Does self-remembering help o
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Does a destructive action start wit
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MR. O. We may talk about scales lat
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who call themselves Yogis—some ju
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MR. O. Certainly different types co
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MR. O. In the sense of expanding, d
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MR. A . I have never detected any l
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Tuesday. March 1st 1938. (Warwick G
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three notes of a cosmic octave What
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example, an advertisement) or I ove
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only requires initial effort to beg
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MISS B If you sit down and try to t
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MR. O. At the same time, they are d
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MR. O. We do not speak about oursel
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y thought? For example, if I am thi
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of accumulation is very complicated
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You must understand that I would li
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Thursday. March 17th 1938. (Warwick
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MR. J. Did Mr. O. say last time tha
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MR. P . Does not power to invent th
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[Questions from Thursday, March 9th
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MR. O. It is too difficult to speak
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MR O Here again, all I can say is t
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late results and eliminate wrong ac
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Again, if you ask this question in
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MR. O. No, no. I do not know where
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MR. H. How much is known about the
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MR. R. There are certain religious
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MR. M. But did not you yourself con
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MR. O. Yes. That was from the ordin
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School cannot be mechanical, so it
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MR. O. They eat different worms.MRS
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and the result of outside stimuli,
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een a negative emotion, for how cou
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talking about coming to lectures an
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five-dimensional world, and the que
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instance, its curvature, the three
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will not be good either. There is n
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it is and suppose they were made li
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natural laws from ordinary deductio
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we cannot use conscience, cannot fe
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certain extent, but not sufficientl
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whereas the influence on masses of
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strength. Then after some time agai
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MISS L. Does emotional centre take
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MR. O. It depends on the octave aga
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work will help another. You have oc
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MR. O. In asking a question like th
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incompatible with the one you want
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can never control two or three cent
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MISS R. Is the desire to dress well
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doesn't care for knowledge—in any
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MR. C. Is such an inequality, if pr
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Perhaps it is possible to explain w
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organization. This formulation abou
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was simply your imagination that di
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it meets all sorts of matters, whic
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MR. O. That shows shocks. One produ
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MR. O. I will say when we come to t
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MR. O. I don't follow.MISS C. It se
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MR. M. Is there a chemical change w
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MR. O. No, it means simply some con
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MR H I have been arriving at my off
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quite personal; there are not two p
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an action happen, or are the three
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all organic life, then certainly ma
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Monday. July 25th 1938. (Warwick Ga
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Accident'. I can see 'cause and eff
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takes place. It is not only actual
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way, you will have to explain to ne
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or wrong or not belonging to it, an
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MR. O. For many reasons. It is diff
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MR. H. What part does the negative
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I am persuaded that there is someth
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MISS M . I ask these questions beca
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MR D . Is there a danger of negativ
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M R . J . What did you mean by 'mec
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personality If one fails it is beca
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only make us more blind, but which,
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Tuesday. October 18th 1938.[Written
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ut they bring other people, and tho
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MR. O. Just individually.Q . I mean
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there were certain moments when the
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MR. O That is only a metaphor.MR. W
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y your own self. But there is no di
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mean that from the point of view of
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Incomplete record. [?] End of Janua
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thinking. Considering is a useless
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MR. M. Am I right in thinking that
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MR. O. No, there is nothing to worr
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theories. Then only when we come to
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The sun is one of the suns of the M
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all on the same level, but they mus
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Sunday. October 15th 1939. (Lyne.)M
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understand the situation. You can d
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work, school-work. Certainly it was
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of things by studying questions lik
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same errors, the same states, quite
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these features. They play a certain
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lunacy in ourselves, and the creati
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itself. It also seems that I am mor
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never seem to have enough material
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MR. O. Well, try; if you have somet
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avoid it and you will see exactly t
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proper uses of formatory apparatus
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MR E It is possible, isn't it, to h
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Next time I will try and come at th
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Tuesday. June 10th 1941. (New York.
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MRS. D. Is that 48 in the brain? [R
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MRS. D. What do you mean by a schoo
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Wednesday. June 11th 1941. (New Yor
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MR. O. Certainly, yes.MRS. C. What
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MR. O. Yes, but one cannot find tru
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Thursday. June 19th 1941. (New York
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MR. N. You can't relate it to the o
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Tuesday. June 24th 1941. (New York.
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MR. O. I don't know. I can speak on
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MR. O. Yes, no question about that.
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it doesn't happen all at once. Afte
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MISS Q . Is the power of mental tel
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MRS. P. Does the energy that comes
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Thursday. July l0th 1941. (New York
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MRS. B. Do you do all three at the
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Friday. July 11th 1941. (New York.)
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deception in imagination. Many lazy
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MR. F. But didn't you say, sir, tha
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MR. O. Oh, many other things. First
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is like another brain and quick—v
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Thursday. July 17th 1941. (New York
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MR. O. There are two forms of wrong
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Tuesday. July 22nd 1941. (New York.
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Wednesday. July 23rd 1941. (New Yor
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MR. O. I merely based it on the exa
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Thursday. July 24th 1941. (New York
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Tuesday. July 29th 1941. (New York.
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MR. B. Why do centres interfere wit
Page 507 and 508: Tuesday. August 5th 1941. (New York
Page 509 and 510: MR. S. Trying to think of yourself,
Page 511 and 512: MR. O. Try to look at it from the p
Page 513 and 514: MRS. F. How can one send help ahead
Page 515 and 516: the cause and reason for it through
Page 517 and 518: thought most people were dead, but
Page 519 and 520: MR. O. We speak about schools which
Page 521 and 522: MRS. P. Have we the right to assume
Page 523 and 524: MR. O. Maybe, in a small way. But i
Page 525 and 526: Only when one comes under school in
Page 527 and 528: Wednesday. August 4th 1943. (New Yo
Page 529 and 530: MR. H. Is it possible to make a liv
Page 531 and 532: MRS. T. In the example you describe
Page 533 and 534: MISS O It has no relation to what o
Page 535 and 536: MR C Is it possible to stimulate co
Page 537 and 538: shock is necessary for further refi
Page 539 and 540: MR. B. It is possible to observe an
Page 541 and 542: This brings us to influences. Influ
Page 543 and 544: ings the development of consciousne
Page 545 and 546: unusual thing happens, you may feel
Page 547 and 548: think about the possibility of awak
Page 549 and 550: Wednesday. October 6th 1943. (New Y
Page 551 and 552: MISS R. But if one could, would it
Page 553 and 554: MISS H . I never thought of 'consid
Page 555 and 556: Wednesday. November 17th 1943. (New
Page 557: MR. O. When you try to remember you
Page 561 and 562: certain proficiency in the control
Page 563 and 564: MR. O. I think everyone can have as
Page 565 and 566: MR. O. But what does waste mean? We
Page 567 and 568: MR. O. Yes, it controls the necessi
Page 569 and 570: MR. O. Because we don't know enough
Page 571 and 572: Memory (From New York Meetings 1944
Page 573 and 574: friend who came to meet me at the G
Page 575 and 576: musical impressions one learns musi
Page 577 and 578: Q. Is there a way of trying to make
Page 579 and 580: By reincarnation you mean in time
Page 581 and 582: find one's favourite imagination. C
Page 583 and 584: But this changes all ideas of recur
Page 585 and 586: Monday. February 24th 1947. (Colet
Page 587 and 588: MR. O. NO.Q . Why are we here?MR. O
Page 589 and 590: MR. M. May I explain?MR. O. [to Mis
Page 591 and 592: Do you mean what we feel that we kn
Page 593 and 594: Q . I find that the answers are eve
Page 595 and 596: MR. O. Yes. Why not? You may . . .
Page 597 and 598: Wednesday. March 5th 1947. (Colet G
Page 599 and 600: MR. O. Well, who could say that?MIS
Page 601 and 602: MR. H. Is a realization of where we
Page 603 and 604: MR. O. [to Miss Q.] Well, do you un
Page 605 and 606: MISS Q. NO.MR. O. Then you remember
Page 607 and 608: MR. R. By trying and trying, one ca
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MISS C. I do not belong to myself.
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Wednesday. March 12th 1947. (Colet
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MR. O. For some people.MRS. U. Is i
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MISS I. Have there been any real qu
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MR. O. Maybe, maybe not. I don't se
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MISS I. Are our questions too theor
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MR. O. You must try.MRS. F. How can
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MR. JA. I feel there is one part in
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MR. O. I can only envy this man or
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that I have no questions. I tried t
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view—the personal one—and is it
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MR. O. Well, you have to do somethi
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Wednesday. May 21st 1947. (Colet Ga
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MR. O. When you remember? Quite rig
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MRS. v. This remembering myself you
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MISS Q . Yes.MRS. A . I find that a
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MRS R. You say we must bring more m
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There are many things that you want
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