A Record of Meetings held by P.D. Ouspensky - HolyBooks.com

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MR. O. Yes. That was from the ordinary point of view of organic andinorganic. In a limited sense it is true.MR. M. When a potato is baked, although it gains in intelligence onone scale, it loses on another, does it not?MR. O. Everything has to be paid for, you know. The potato pays forone thing with another thing. The same applies to us. If we want onething we have to pay for it by another thing.MR. M. Could these two types of intelligence be compared?MR. O. Which measure do you use? Yes, they are comparable, if youlike. In the one case it is simply reproduction, growth. The potato canproduce other potatoes. But the baked potato passes to another levelof existence, it sacrifices itself.There is a diagram relating to this problem, and I cannot reallyanswer your questions about different intelligence until we have had it.It is rather too long to give it now, but we will try to come to it soon.MRS. S. Surely a baked potato loses adaptability?MR. O. Yes, it does, but it is food for man, and this, for a vegetable, isalready a great step up.MRS. S. Is adaptability the thing it sacrifices?MR. O. It sacrifices its life. It shows you how everything must be paidfor. Nothing can be had for nothing.MRS. S. Can a school function as food in any way for men on a higherlevel?MR. O. No. It is necessary first to know what is meant by food.Secondly, school has nothing to do with it.MR. S. You said once that the origin of organic life was a series ofexperiments of which man was the last and most successful. Is itpossible to have these experiments in order and see what was addedeach time? Would not that be a correct and useful study of evolution?MR. O. That was my own description, not the system. There are toomany experiments to try to do this. But if you begin to study naturalscience, you will see such a wonderful profusion, even absurdity, inthese experiments; such strange insects, for instance, that you understandthey were just experiments to see how a certain principle couldwork. But it cannot be put in simple formulas. What is generally calledevolution does not exist; it cannot be observed and it could notproduce all this variety of things. Evolution or experiment, they areboth hypotheses.
MRS. S. Do all the experiments serve a purpose?MR. O. We do not know, but we can suppose, taking what we knowfrom the system, that the purpose was to build a self-developing being,which is man. Nature brings him to a certain point and then leaves himto develop by himself if he can. But what was the purpose of, say, thisfly's eye, which is made up of a thousand eyes? Why this experimentwas necessary for human evolution we do not know.MRS. S. Could it not be another purpose, apart from man?MR. O. There is no evidence. Quite the opposite. Everything points tothe purpose having been to invent the different principles by whichman is built. Man is a very complicated being, and it is evident that allthis work was necessary in order to invent the principles of the humanbody. It is the only reasonable explanation.MR. M. If man could understand the laws under which he lives, wouldhe be concerned with conforming to them or avoiding them?MR. O. When man begins to understand he finds many laws he can befree from. That is what happens. Then he begins to work to becomefree. Self-development is work towards freedom.MR. M. But some he would strive to obey, would he not?MR. O. I cannot answer yes or no to that. What do you mean by 'striveto obey'? It is difficult to answer without knowing what you arethinking of.MR. M. Does one know any of these laws?MR. O. Certainly one does. Physical laws, biological laws, laws in thelegal sense, and so on.MR. M . So he is always swimming against the current?MR. O. He must have system. Without system he can do nothing.System, school shows the different relative value of laws and therelative necessity of laws. Certainly it means he has to swim against thecurrent, but he cannot do this without school. With school he has achance.[To Mr. P.] You asked a question a little time ago which I did not answerbecause it interrupted another conversation. What was your question?MR. P . I understood you to say that the one thing one could take it forcertain could not recur was a school. I supposed it might mean aperson could only meet a school in one life?MR. O. No, that is introducing another idea. It is simpler than that.Recurrence, if it exists, is all mechanical, based on mechanicalness.
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A record of some of the meetings he
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meaning, indicated by the smallest
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Thursday. August 20th 1931.MR. O. I
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MISS G. When you say someone still
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MR. W. For oneself?MR. O. Yes, but
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MRS. M. Can I put it another way?MR
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MR. M. But you must believe somethi
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MISS M. In reference to what you sa
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I know these ideas cannot be found
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Wednesday. January 16th 1935.Ray of
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they develop one from another. We t
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Wednesday. January 9th 1935. Thursd
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nearest to us is earth. All planets
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Thursday. January 24th 1935.It is a
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impressions above H48 are not a rul
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Thursday. February 28th 1935.MR. O.
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MR. R. May one use this system to u
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mystery about it, I want to give yo
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Q . Are we to only ask people who a
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exception of quite extreme cases, e
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view; at the same time, by studying
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line. This is the beginning of the
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Q . If there is no not-weakness, ho
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sophical schools. But ordinarily a
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think that man can reincarnate. Chr
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MR. R. About laws that we can be fr
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MR. H. Mr. O. said that we live bel
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MR. L. I notice that I am often irr
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take an analogy on a smaller scale.
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MR. O. I don't know. I have the rig
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MR. O. Maybe. We cannot take them a
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give up, there is no will. Another
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it is only influences D. But you ca
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MR. O. Certainly quite different. T
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MRS. H. Doesn't a real change of at
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MRS. W. You spoke of the dangers of
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MR. O. You can work to come into co
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get rid of these unpleasant emotion
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our own weaknesses, and if we know
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MR. O. Truth exists without us, but
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MR. C. Does inner octave mean that
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(our ray). We take only the Absolut
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MR. O. I don't know. Many things ca
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Thursday. March 19th 1936.MISS C. I
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MR. L. What is evil? .MR. O. What i
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that he wanted to go to Italy on a
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MR. O. That is not the reason. Even
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not the purely conventional evil, b
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speaking, if you mean instinctive c
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You cannot begin with 'doing'. Even
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Question about triads.MR. O. ... Wi
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***MR. D. A question about art.MR.
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We will represent the Absolute by a
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MR. N. But there are still mechanic
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MR. O. It means the general weakeni
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looks so difficult when it is expla
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eader will never be able to find th
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This shows the beginning of a view
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MR. D. Could such facts as these be
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certain rules and conditions. If on
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On the technical side the formation
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MR. O. This is a subject for conver
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MR. O. At present we cannot do much
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MISS W. I feel that we don't rememb
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MR. O. About St. Paul it is necessa
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can help, but it cannot, by itself,
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talks be necessary, why is school n
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MR. C. It is difficult to see wheth
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MRS. A . I understood Mr. O. to say
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MR. O. You mean unsuccessful?MR. P
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Monday. October 18th 1937.MR. O. Tr
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this, or the same, and also others.
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Thursday. October 28th 1937.[Descri
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understand the necessity of objecti
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MR. O. No, he is taking no responsi
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comes to us through so many transla
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the same way which leads to objecti
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the beginning. Something happens—
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How does one accept that in our wor
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Thursday. January 6th 1938. (Warwic
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also determines action. But if you
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MR. O. There are many laws. Certain
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We can pass differently the time in
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Thursday. January 13th 1938. (Warwi
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opposites—splendour and misery, d
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MRS. D. Can criminal energy be used
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MRS. F. Should one try to direct en
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MR. O I meant if you do not identif
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Monday. January 17th 1938.MR. O. In
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this activity, try to see all that
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Thursday. January 20th 1938. (Warwi
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MR. F. What is the significance oth
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what size is the picture, what is t
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part of emotional centre. How does
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do it. Like if you have to make the
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MR. A . What is the fundamental con
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think they can; they will describe
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work, the answer is best revealed w
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terms It is, however, possible to b
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normal sleep, but you cannot lose m
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one definition. First each must be
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We understand differences of object
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MR. A . As soon as a man throws him
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ordinary state, we cannot speak exc
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igger scale, you know. We are not t
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Thursday. February 3rd 1938. (Warwi
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the problem, not change your action
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Killing a man, does that belong to
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incomplete development which does n
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not principle. We can distinguish m
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MR O. How can I explain? Many thing
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MR. S. Does self-remembering help o
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Does a destructive action start wit
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MR. O. We may talk about scales lat
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who call themselves Yogis—some ju
Page 238 and 239: MR. O. Certainly different types co
Page 240 and 241: MR. O. In the sense of expanding, d
Page 242 and 243: MR. A . I have never detected any l
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Page 252 and 253: MISS B If you sit down and try to t
Page 254 and 255: MR. O. At the same time, they are d
Page 256 and 257: MR. O. We do not speak about oursel
Page 258 and 259: y thought? For example, if I am thi
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Page 262 and 263: You must understand that I would li
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Page 266 and 267: MR. J. Did Mr. O. say last time tha
Page 268 and 269: MR. P . Does not power to invent th
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Page 272 and 273: MR. O. It is too difficult to speak
Page 274 and 275: MR O Here again, all I can say is t
Page 276 and 277: late results and eliminate wrong ac
Page 278 and 279: Again, if you ask this question in
Page 280 and 281: MR. O. No, no. I do not know where
Page 282 and 283: MR. H. How much is known about the
Page 284 and 285: MR. R. There are certain religious
Page 286 and 287: MR. M. But did not you yourself con
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Page 292 and 293: MR. O. They eat different worms.MRS
Page 294 and 295: and the result of outside stimuli,
Page 296 and 297: een a negative emotion, for how cou
Page 298 and 299: talking about coming to lectures an
Page 300 and 301: five-dimensional world, and the que
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Page 304 and 305: will not be good either. There is n
Page 306 and 307: it is and suppose they were made li
Page 308 and 309: natural laws from ordinary deductio
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Page 312 and 313: certain extent, but not sufficientl
Page 314 and 315: whereas the influence on masses of
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Page 318 and 319: MISS L. Does emotional centre take
Page 320 and 321: MR. O. It depends on the octave aga
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Page 324 and 325: MR. O. In asking a question like th
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Page 330 and 331: MISS R. Is the desire to dress well
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Page 334 and 335: MR. C. Is such an inequality, if pr
Page 336 and 337: Perhaps it is possible to explain w
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organization. This formulation abou
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was simply your imagination that di
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it meets all sorts of matters, whic
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MR. O. That shows shocks. One produ
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MR. O. I will say when we come to t
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MR. O. I don't follow.MISS C. It se
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MR. M. Is there a chemical change w
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MR. O. No, it means simply some con
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MR H I have been arriving at my off
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quite personal; there are not two p
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an action happen, or are the three
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all organic life, then certainly ma
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Monday. July 25th 1938. (Warwick Ga
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Accident'. I can see 'cause and eff
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takes place. It is not only actual
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way, you will have to explain to ne
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or wrong or not belonging to it, an
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MR. O. For many reasons. It is diff
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MR. H. What part does the negative
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I am persuaded that there is someth
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MISS M . I ask these questions beca
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MR D . Is there a danger of negativ
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M R . J . What did you mean by 'mec
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personality If one fails it is beca
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only make us more blind, but which,
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Tuesday. October 18th 1938.[Written
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ut they bring other people, and tho
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MR. O. Just individually.Q . I mean
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there were certain moments when the
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MR. O That is only a metaphor.MR. W
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y your own self. But there is no di
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mean that from the point of view of
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Incomplete record. [?] End of Janua
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thinking. Considering is a useless
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MR. M. Am I right in thinking that
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MR. O. No, there is nothing to worr
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theories. Then only when we come to
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The sun is one of the suns of the M
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all on the same level, but they mus
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Sunday. October 15th 1939. (Lyne.)M
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understand the situation. You can d
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work, school-work. Certainly it was
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of things by studying questions lik
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same errors, the same states, quite
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these features. They play a certain
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lunacy in ourselves, and the creati
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itself. It also seems that I am mor
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never seem to have enough material
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MR. O. Well, try; if you have somet
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avoid it and you will see exactly t
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proper uses of formatory apparatus
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MR E It is possible, isn't it, to h
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Next time I will try and come at th
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Tuesday. June 10th 1941. (New York.
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MRS. D. Is that 48 in the brain? [R
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MRS. D. What do you mean by a schoo
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Wednesday. June 11th 1941. (New Yor
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MR. O. Certainly, yes.MRS. C. What
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MR. O. Yes, but one cannot find tru
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Thursday. June 19th 1941. (New York
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MR. N. You can't relate it to the o
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Tuesday. June 24th 1941. (New York.
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MR. O. I don't know. I can speak on
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MR. O. Yes, no question about that.
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it doesn't happen all at once. Afte
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MISS Q . Is the power of mental tel
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MRS. P. Does the energy that comes
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Thursday. July l0th 1941. (New York
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MRS. B. Do you do all three at the
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Friday. July 11th 1941. (New York.)
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deception in imagination. Many lazy
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MR. F. But didn't you say, sir, tha
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MR. O. Oh, many other things. First
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is like another brain and quick—v
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Thursday. July 17th 1941. (New York
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MR. O. There are two forms of wrong
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Tuesday. July 22nd 1941. (New York.
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Wednesday. July 23rd 1941. (New Yor
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MR. O. I merely based it on the exa
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Thursday. July 24th 1941. (New York
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Tuesday. July 29th 1941. (New York.
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MR. B. Why do centres interfere wit
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Tuesday. August 5th 1941. (New York
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MR. S. Trying to think of yourself,
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MR. O. Try to look at it from the p
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MRS. F. How can one send help ahead
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the cause and reason for it through
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thought most people were dead, but
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MR. O. We speak about schools which
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MRS. P. Have we the right to assume
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MR. O. Maybe, in a small way. But i
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Only when one comes under school in
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Wednesday. August 4th 1943. (New Yo
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MR. H. Is it possible to make a liv
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MRS. T. In the example you describe
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MISS O It has no relation to what o
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MR C Is it possible to stimulate co
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shock is necessary for further refi
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MR. B. It is possible to observe an
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This brings us to influences. Influ
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ings the development of consciousne
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unusual thing happens, you may feel
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think about the possibility of awak
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Wednesday. October 6th 1943. (New Y
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MISS R. But if one could, would it
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MISS H . I never thought of 'consid
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Wednesday. November 17th 1943. (New
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MR. O. When you try to remember you
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and people repeat it without knowin
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certain proficiency in the control
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MR. O. I think everyone can have as
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MR. O. But what does waste mean? We
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MR. O. Yes, it controls the necessi
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MR. O. Because we don't know enough
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Memory (From New York Meetings 1944
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friend who came to meet me at the G
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musical impressions one learns musi
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Q. Is there a way of trying to make
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By reincarnation you mean in time
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find one's favourite imagination. C
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But this changes all ideas of recur
Page 585 and 586:
Monday. February 24th 1947. (Colet
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MR. O. NO.Q . Why are we here?MR. O
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MR. M. May I explain?MR. O. [to Mis
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Do you mean what we feel that we kn
Page 593 and 594:
Q . I find that the answers are eve
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MR. O. Yes. Why not? You may . . .
Page 597 and 598:
Wednesday. March 5th 1947. (Colet G
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MR. O. Well, who could say that?MIS
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MR. H. Is a realization of where we
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MR. O. [to Miss Q.] Well, do you un
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MISS Q. NO.MR. O. Then you remember
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MR. R. By trying and trying, one ca
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MISS C. I do not belong to myself.
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Wednesday. March 12th 1947. (Colet
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MR. O. For some people.MRS. U. Is i
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MISS I. Have there been any real qu
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MR. O. Maybe, maybe not. I don't se
Page 619 and 620:
MISS I. Are our questions too theor
Page 621 and 622:
MR. O. You must try.MRS. F. How can
Page 623 and 624:
MR. JA. I feel there is one part in
Page 625 and 626:
MR. O. I can only envy this man or
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that I have no questions. I tried t
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view—the personal one—and is it
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MR. O. Well, you have to do somethi
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Wednesday. May 21st 1947. (Colet Ga
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MR. O. When you remember? Quite rig
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MRS. v. This remembering myself you
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MISS Q . Yes.MRS. A . I find that a
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MRS R. You say we must bring more m
Page 643:
There are many things that you want
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