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The Fall of the Athenian Empire-(A New History of the Peloponnesian War) Donald Kagan - (1987)

MACEDONIA is GREECE and will always be GREECE- (if they are desperate to steal a name, Monkeydonkeys suits them just fine) ΚΑΤΩ Η ΣΥΓΚΥΒΕΡΝΗΣΗ ΤΩΝ ΠΡΟΔΟΤΩΝ!!! Strabo – “Geography” “There remain of Europe, first, Macedonia and the parts of Thrace that are contiguous to it and extend as far as Byzantium; secondly, Greece; and thirdly, the islands that are close by. Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece, yet now, since I am following the nature and shape of the places geographically, I have decided to classify it apart from the rest of Greece and to join it with that part of Thrace which borders on it and extends as far as the mouth of the Euxine and the Propontis. Then, a little further on, Strabo mentions Cypsela and the Hebrus River, and also describes a sort of parallelogram in which the whole of Macedonia lies.” (Strab. 7.fragments.9) ΚΚΕ, ΚΝΕ, ΟΝΝΕΔ, ΑΓΟΡΑ,ΕΚΚΛΗΣΙΑ,ΝΕΑ,ΦΩΝΗ,ΦΕΚ,ΝΟΜΟΣ,LIFO,MACEDONIA, ALEXANDER, GREECE,IKEA

MACEDONIA is GREECE and will always be GREECE- (if they are desperate to steal a name, Monkeydonkeys suits them just fine)

ΚΑΤΩ Η ΣΥΓΚΥΒΕΡΝΗΣΗ ΤΩΝ ΠΡΟΔΟΤΩΝ!!!

Strabo – “Geography”
“There remain of Europe, first, Macedonia and the parts of Thrace that are contiguous to it and extend as far as Byzantium; secondly, Greece; and thirdly, the islands that are close by. Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece, yet now, since I am following the nature and shape of the places geographically, I have decided to classify it apart from the rest of Greece and to join it with that part of Thrace which borders on it and extends as far as the mouth of the Euxine and the Propontis. Then, a little further on, Strabo mentions Cypsela and the Hebrus River, and also describes a sort of parallelogram in which the whole of Macedonia lies.”
(Strab. 7.fragments.9)

ΚΚΕ, ΚΝΕ, ΟΝΝΕΔ, ΑΓΟΡΑ,ΕΚΚΛΗΣΙΑ,ΝΕΑ,ΦΩΝΗ,ΦΕΚ,ΝΟΜΟΣ,LIFO,MACEDONIA, ALEXANDER, GREECE,IKEA

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THE COUP 137<br />

fighting and expense unnecessary. In any case, he would have made<br />

his change <strong>of</strong> attitude and policy clear to Alcibiades before <strong>the</strong> meeting,<br />

since <strong>the</strong> A<strong>the</strong>nian exile would serve as his spokesman.<br />

When <strong>the</strong> meeting began, <strong>the</strong>refore, Alcibiades knew that he could<br />

not deliver what he had promised, that <strong>the</strong> sa trap's demands were such<br />

that no A<strong>the</strong>nian negotiators could accept <strong>the</strong>m. In a desperate situation,<br />

all he could hope to salvage was <strong>the</strong> illusion that he still had as<br />

much influence with Tissaphernes as he had led <strong>the</strong> A<strong>the</strong>nians to<br />

believe. 20 His purpose was to make it seem that <strong>the</strong> negotiations' inevitable<br />

failure was due to <strong>the</strong> A<strong>the</strong>nians' unwillingness to accept terms<br />

that he thought reasonable and that his failure to bring over Tissaphernes<br />

was not due to his inability but to his decision not to bring<br />

him over in light <strong>of</strong> <strong>the</strong> A<strong>the</strong>nians' attitude.<br />

<strong>The</strong> negotiations were not brief, but extended over three sessions. 21<br />

Thucydides tells us that Tissaphernes demanded that <strong>the</strong> A<strong>the</strong>nians<br />

give up all <strong>of</strong> Ionia. Presumably, this means all <strong>of</strong> <strong>the</strong> cities on <strong>the</strong><br />

western coast <strong>of</strong> Asia Minor, an important part <strong>of</strong> <strong>the</strong>ir empire." He<br />

also required that <strong>the</strong>y give up "<strong>the</strong> adjacent islands and o<strong>the</strong>r things."<br />

This would include many major places and sources <strong>of</strong> imperial revenue<br />

such as Rhodes, Samos, Chios, and Lesbos. In spite <strong>of</strong> <strong>the</strong> great loss<br />

this meant for A<strong>the</strong>ns, <strong>the</strong> envoys agreed to <strong>the</strong>se demands. At <strong>the</strong><br />

third and final session, however, Alcibiades conveyed a demand from<br />

<strong>the</strong> satrap that <strong>the</strong> A<strong>the</strong>nians refused. He required that <strong>the</strong> A<strong>the</strong>nians<br />

allow "<strong>the</strong> King to build ships and to sail <strong>the</strong>m along his own coasts<br />

wherever and in whatever numbers he wished. •m<br />

20<br />

This interpretation departs from Thucydides' in one important respect. He believes<br />

that Tissaphemes entered <strong>the</strong> negotiations not wanting to make any agreement aw TO<br />

&ioc;, "because <strong>of</strong> fear" (8. s6. 3), whereas <strong>the</strong> suggestion here is that <strong>the</strong> demands he<br />

made were seriously intended and would have led to agreement had <strong>the</strong> A<strong>the</strong>nians<br />

accepted <strong>the</strong>m. <strong>The</strong> main reason for <strong>the</strong> suggestion is <strong>the</strong> extreme implausibility <strong>of</strong> <strong>the</strong><br />

motive mentioned by Thucydides, greater fear <strong>of</strong> <strong>the</strong> <strong>Peloponnesian</strong>s than before. We<br />

must remember that Thucydides had no independent knowledg~ <strong>of</strong> Tissaphemes'<br />

thinking and was badly placed to make a good estimate. <strong>The</strong>re is no reason to believe<br />

that he had ever met <strong>the</strong> satrap. <strong>The</strong> likeliest source for <strong>the</strong> entire affair is Alcibiades<br />

(P. A. Brunt, REG LXV [1952], 8o), and as usual, he appears to have magnified his<br />

own part in events and to have persuaded Thucydides (ibid., 95).<br />

11<br />

This would appear to be fur<strong>the</strong>r evidence that Tissaphernes sincerely hoped to<br />

reach an agreement on his terms. If he wanted no agreement with <strong>the</strong> A<strong>the</strong>nians out<br />

<strong>of</strong> fear <strong>of</strong> <strong>the</strong> <strong>Peloponnesian</strong>s, he need not have held <strong>the</strong> conference. If he saw some<br />

value in having <strong>the</strong> conference and placing <strong>the</strong> onus <strong>of</strong> its failure on <strong>the</strong> A<strong>the</strong>nians, he<br />

could have presented all <strong>of</strong> <strong>the</strong> demands at <strong>the</strong> first session. <strong>The</strong> extended discussions<br />

suy?,:est an attempt to gain an agreement.<br />

s. 5 6. 4 ; HCT v, , 34 .<br />

2 J8. 56+ This translation accords with <strong>the</strong> reading <strong>of</strong> all <strong>of</strong> <strong>the</strong> MSS: EmrroU, except

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