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The Fall of the Athenian Empire-(A New History of the Peloponnesian War) Donald Kagan - (1987)

MACEDONIA is GREECE and will always be GREECE- (if they are desperate to steal a name, Monkeydonkeys suits them just fine) ΚΑΤΩ Η ΣΥΓΚΥΒΕΡΝΗΣΗ ΤΩΝ ΠΡΟΔΟΤΩΝ!!! Strabo – “Geography” “There remain of Europe, first, Macedonia and the parts of Thrace that are contiguous to it and extend as far as Byzantium; secondly, Greece; and thirdly, the islands that are close by. Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece, yet now, since I am following the nature and shape of the places geographically, I have decided to classify it apart from the rest of Greece and to join it with that part of Thrace which borders on it and extends as far as the mouth of the Euxine and the Propontis. Then, a little further on, Strabo mentions Cypsela and the Hebrus River, and also describes a sort of parallelogram in which the whole of Macedonia lies.” (Strab. 7.fragments.9) ΚΚΕ, ΚΝΕ, ΟΝΝΕΔ, ΑΓΟΡΑ,ΕΚΚΛΗΣΙΑ,ΝΕΑ,ΦΩΝΗ,ΦΕΚ,ΝΟΜΟΣ,LIFO,MACEDONIA, ALEXANDER, GREECE,IKEA

MACEDONIA is GREECE and will always be GREECE- (if they are desperate to steal a name, Monkeydonkeys suits them just fine)

ΚΑΤΩ Η ΣΥΓΚΥΒΕΡΝΗΣΗ ΤΩΝ ΠΡΟΔΟΤΩΝ!!!

Strabo – “Geography”
“There remain of Europe, first, Macedonia and the parts of Thrace that are contiguous to it and extend as far as Byzantium; secondly, Greece; and thirdly, the islands that are close by. Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece, yet now, since I am following the nature and shape of the places geographically, I have decided to classify it apart from the rest of Greece and to join it with that part of Thrace which borders on it and extends as far as the mouth of the Euxine and the Propontis. Then, a little further on, Strabo mentions Cypsela and the Hebrus River, and also describes a sort of parallelogram in which the whole of Macedonia lies.”
(Strab. 7.fragments.9)

ΚΚΕ, ΚΝΕ, ΟΝΝΕΔ, ΑΓΟΡΑ,ΕΚΚΛΗΣΙΑ,ΝΕΑ,ΦΩΝΗ,ΦΕΚ,ΝΟΜΟΣ,LIFO,MACEDONIA, ALEXANDER, GREECE,IKEA

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THE FALL OF ATHENS 403<br />

months with Lysander. 102 When he returned toward <strong>the</strong> beginning <strong>of</strong><br />

March, he explained his long absence by saying that Lysander had<br />

kept him against his will and had told him only what Agis had: that<br />

he himself had no authority to discuss peace terms; if <strong>The</strong>ramenes<br />

wanted <strong>the</strong> answers to his questions, he must go to Sparta and ask <strong>the</strong><br />

ephors. 101 If Lysander wanted <strong>the</strong> A<strong>the</strong>nians to surrender as soon as<br />

possible, he could only lose by detaining <strong>The</strong>ramenes, for <strong>the</strong> A<strong>the</strong>nians<br />

were less likely to accept Spartan terms while <strong>the</strong>ir ambassador<br />

was still negotiating better ones than if he had returned immediately<br />

and without hope. Nei<strong>the</strong>r Xenophon nor Lysias believed <strong>The</strong>ramenes'<br />

story, nor should we. Both <strong>the</strong> ancient writers thought that <strong>The</strong>ramenes<br />

had stayed away so long <strong>of</strong> his own free will so that <strong>the</strong> A<strong>the</strong>nians<br />

would grow so hungry that <strong>the</strong>y would accept whatever terms<br />

<strong>the</strong> Spartans might <strong>of</strong>fer. 104 That explanation has been widely accepted.<br />

105 Moreover, it <strong>of</strong>ten has been accepted with <strong>the</strong> understanding<br />

that <strong>The</strong>ramenes employed part <strong>of</strong> his time plotting with Lysander to<br />

install an oligarchic regime to <strong>the</strong> liking <strong>of</strong> <strong>the</strong>m both. 10 ' Such an<br />

explanation, however, presents very real problems. <strong>The</strong> first is that<br />

<strong>the</strong> delay was more likely to put <strong>of</strong>f surrender than to hasten it. <strong>The</strong><br />

quickest way for <strong>The</strong>ramenes to have brought A<strong>the</strong>ns to terms, had<br />

that been his only purpose, would have been to come back within a<br />

couple <strong>of</strong> weeks and report that <strong>the</strong> Spartans had no wish to destroy<br />

A<strong>the</strong>ns or its people but were adamant about peace terms.<br />

A second difficulty is presented by <strong>the</strong> fact that when <strong>The</strong>ramenes<br />

returned from Lysander after an extraordinarily long and painful delay<br />

only to announce what Xenophon and Lysias, even more, represent<br />

as a totally unsuccessful mission, <strong>the</strong> A<strong>the</strong>nians at once chose him<br />

again as ambassador with full powers and sent him to Sparta at <strong>the</strong><br />

head <strong>of</strong> a mission <strong>of</strong>ten men to continue <strong>the</strong> negotiations. 107 To believe<br />

all <strong>of</strong> that strains credulity beyond reasonable limits. At <strong>the</strong> very least,<br />

we must reject Lysias' assertions that <strong>The</strong>ramenes made specific promises<br />

impossible to carry out, for had he done so and had returned<br />

102 Xen. 2.2.16. Lysias (IJ.ll) says that he went to Sparta and stayed <strong>the</strong>re "a long<br />

time." <strong>The</strong> "<strong>The</strong>ramenes Papyrus" (1.41) shows that he is wrong and that Lysander<br />

was on Samos.<br />

•mxen. 2.2.17.<br />

104 Xen. 2.2.16; Lys. IJ.II.<br />

105 For references, see Kremz, Thirty, 36, n. 21.<br />

106<br />

See, e.g., Busolt, GG III:z, I6JI.<br />

107 Xen. 2.2.

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