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The Fall of the Athenian Empire-(A New History of the Peloponnesian War) Donald Kagan - (1987)

MACEDONIA is GREECE and will always be GREECE- (if they are desperate to steal a name, Monkeydonkeys suits them just fine) ΚΑΤΩ Η ΣΥΓΚΥΒΕΡΝΗΣΗ ΤΩΝ ΠΡΟΔΟΤΩΝ!!! Strabo – “Geography” “There remain of Europe, first, Macedonia and the parts of Thrace that are contiguous to it and extend as far as Byzantium; secondly, Greece; and thirdly, the islands that are close by. Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece, yet now, since I am following the nature and shape of the places geographically, I have decided to classify it apart from the rest of Greece and to join it with that part of Thrace which borders on it and extends as far as the mouth of the Euxine and the Propontis. Then, a little further on, Strabo mentions Cypsela and the Hebrus River, and also describes a sort of parallelogram in which the whole of Macedonia lies.” (Strab. 7.fragments.9) ΚΚΕ, ΚΝΕ, ΟΝΝΕΔ, ΑΓΟΡΑ,ΕΚΚΛΗΣΙΑ,ΝΕΑ,ΦΩΝΗ,ΦΕΚ,ΝΟΜΟΣ,LIFO,MACEDONIA, ALEXANDER, GREECE,IKEA

MACEDONIA is GREECE and will always be GREECE- (if they are desperate to steal a name, Monkeydonkeys suits them just fine)

ΚΑΤΩ Η ΣΥΓΚΥΒΕΡΝΗΣΗ ΤΩΝ ΠΡΟΔΟΤΩΝ!!!

Strabo – “Geography”
“There remain of Europe, first, Macedonia and the parts of Thrace that are contiguous to it and extend as far as Byzantium; secondly, Greece; and thirdly, the islands that are close by. Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece, yet now, since I am following the nature and shape of the places geographically, I have decided to classify it apart from the rest of Greece and to join it with that part of Thrace which borders on it and extends as far as the mouth of the Euxine and the Propontis. Then, a little further on, Strabo mentions Cypsela and the Hebrus River, and also describes a sort of parallelogram in which the whole of Macedonia lies.”
(Strab. 7.fragments.9)

ΚΚΕ, ΚΝΕ, ΟΝΝΕΔ, ΑΓΟΡΑ,ΕΚΚΛΗΣΙΑ,ΝΕΑ,ΦΩΝΗ,ΦΕΚ,ΝΟΜΟΣ,LIFO,MACEDONIA, ALEXANDER, GREECE,IKEA

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THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE FIVE THOUSAND 205<br />

<strong>of</strong> <strong>the</strong> Five Thousand functioned in a manner similar to that <strong>of</strong> <strong>the</strong><br />

full democracy, with <strong>the</strong> important exception that <strong>the</strong> <strong>the</strong>tes did not<br />

take part.<br />

Thucydides awards <strong>the</strong> constitution <strong>of</strong> <strong>the</strong> Five Thousand high<br />

praise, perhaps calling it <strong>the</strong> best government A<strong>the</strong>ns had in his lifetime."<br />

Aristotle, as we have seen, also rated it highly, saying that <strong>the</strong><br />

A<strong>the</strong>nians "seem to have been governed well at that time, for a war<br />

was in progress, and <strong>the</strong> state was in <strong>the</strong> hands <strong>of</strong> those bearing arms."<br />

That praise no doubt expressed <strong>the</strong> sentiments <strong>of</strong> its author more<br />

accurately than <strong>the</strong> realities <strong>of</strong> <strong>the</strong> situation, for <strong>the</strong> main weakness <strong>of</strong><br />

<strong>the</strong> new constitution was that it did not meet <strong>the</strong> needs <strong>of</strong> A<strong>the</strong>ns<br />

precisely in respect to its military forces. <strong>The</strong> moderates who introduced<br />

it were determined to wage war against <strong>the</strong> enemy, but to do<br />

so successfully, <strong>the</strong>y must unite <strong>the</strong> hoplites and cavalrymen in <strong>the</strong><br />

city with <strong>the</strong> even more important force on Samos. But that force was<br />

made up chiefly <strong>of</strong> <strong>the</strong>tes whose service in <strong>the</strong> fleet was vital for victory<br />

but who would be excluded from active participation in <strong>the</strong> new constitution.<br />

With <strong>the</strong> advantage <strong>of</strong> hindsight, we can see that such an<br />

arrangement could not last long. It was only a matter <strong>of</strong> time until <strong>the</strong><br />

men who rowed <strong>the</strong> ships would insist on <strong>the</strong> restoration <strong>of</strong> <strong>the</strong>ir full<br />

political rights. <strong>The</strong> irony confronting <strong>the</strong> moderates was that <strong>the</strong>ir<br />

55 8.97·2: Kal. oUx ilKLO"Tct &ij TOV 'll'p6Yrov xp6V011 E1TL 'YE. EjJ.oO 'A8"1vatm. cpci:LVOV7aL<br />

eU 1TO~LTefuavTEc;. <strong>The</strong> meaning <strong>of</strong> this sentence has been much disputed. It is not<br />

certain whNher <strong>the</strong> praise is intended for <strong>the</strong> entire period in which <strong>the</strong> Five Thousand<br />

ruled or only its first part; whe<strong>the</strong>r crUx_ -i]KLO"'Ta is a superlative and, if so, a strong or<br />

a weak one; or if e.lJ 1TOALTefuavn:c; means that <strong>the</strong> A<strong>the</strong>nians at that time had a good<br />

constitution or only that <strong>the</strong>y managed <strong>the</strong>ir affairs welL For a full discussion <strong>of</strong> <strong>the</strong><br />

problems, see G. Donini, La posizione di Tucidide verso il governo dei cinquemila (Turin,<br />

1969). Andrewcs (HCT V, 331-339) also <strong>of</strong>fers a valuable discussion, placing <strong>the</strong> passage<br />

in <strong>the</strong> context <strong>of</strong> Thucydides' political ideas. He translates it: "<strong>The</strong> initial period (<strong>of</strong><br />

this regime) was one <strong>of</strong> <strong>the</strong> periods when <strong>the</strong> affairs <strong>of</strong> A<strong>the</strong>ns were conducted best,<br />

at least in my time" (3 30). I find it hard to believe that Thucydides would distinguish<br />

between <strong>the</strong> quality <strong>of</strong> <strong>the</strong> constitution or government in <strong>the</strong> first period <strong>of</strong> <strong>the</strong> regime's<br />

existence, as opposed to a later one, when it lasted only nine or ten months. <strong>The</strong> s<strong>of</strong>ter<br />

superlative ra<strong>the</strong>r than a stricter one is possible but not necessary. What I find hardest<br />

to accept is <strong>the</strong> suggestion that Thucydides refers not to constitutional arrangements<br />

but only to <strong>the</strong> management <strong>of</strong> affairs. <strong>The</strong> words that folJow-"for it was a moderate<br />

blend in respect to <strong>the</strong> few and <strong>the</strong> many, and it was this that first alJowed <strong>the</strong> state<br />

to recover from its wretched circumstances," Ka:t £K 1Tovftpwv "TWv "'TPO:"Y!J.li"Twv<br />

yevo~J.£vwv "ToiJTo 11pW7ov civi}VE"YKE Ti)v 'JT6Atv-seem to indicate that Thucydides<br />

refers to both constitutional and political matters but makes <strong>the</strong> latter subordinate to<br />

<strong>the</strong> former. I prefer to translate <strong>the</strong> passage as follows: "For <strong>the</strong> first time, at least in<br />

my own time, <strong>the</strong> A<strong>the</strong>nians seem to have been well governed." But Andrewes' version<br />

is closer to <strong>the</strong> consensus.

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