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358 <strong>Founders</strong> <strong>at</strong> <strong>Work</strong><br />

kibbutz army program. It was two years on a kibbutz, which is a communal farm<br />

in Israel. They usually have industry, and the kibbutz I was on had a bakery,<br />

which was this gigantic factory th<strong>at</strong> made bread. I spent almost 2 years making<br />

bread every night in this factory th<strong>at</strong> made hundreds of thousands of loaves of<br />

bread. It was not artisan bread by any stretch of the imagin<strong>at</strong>ion. It was a big,<br />

noisy bakery. There are so many things th<strong>at</strong> I learned from th<strong>at</strong> about how<br />

people work, how to think about working, how to manage, how an assembly line<br />

might be organized, how industrial machinery works.<br />

But my first job <strong>at</strong> Microsoft is really where I learned the software industry.<br />

I got there in 1991. At the time, there were almost—I hesit<strong>at</strong>e to say this, but—<br />

no software companies th<strong>at</strong> really knew the basics of how to develop software in<br />

the way th<strong>at</strong> Microsoft did. They accomplished wh<strong>at</strong> they did because they figured<br />

out a ton of things about how to make software, repe<strong>at</strong>edly and reliably,<br />

th<strong>at</strong> people want to buy, th<strong>at</strong> nobody else had figured out. And they were doing<br />

things like bug tracking—like having a bug-tracking d<strong>at</strong>abase—th<strong>at</strong> seem completely<br />

obvious, and, when you looked around, 80 percent of commercial<br />

software companies did not do bug tracking. Or 80 percent of commercial software<br />

companies did not write specific<strong>at</strong>ions. Or 99 percent of commercial<br />

software companies did not do usability testing.<br />

If you were an alien and you came here in 1991 and you wanted to learn<br />

how to develop software, you would learn ten times as much <strong>at</strong> Microsoft as<br />

anywhere else, I think, because I w<strong>at</strong>ched these companies kind of flail making<br />

mistakes. There were things—really basic things, th<strong>at</strong> companies did not know.<br />

Microsoft knew th<strong>at</strong> loading a segment register on the 386 was a very timeconsuming<br />

oper<strong>at</strong>ion, and therefore on the 386 architecture you can’t use far<br />

pointers unless you absolutely have to because it’s extremely slow. Borland did<br />

not know th<strong>at</strong>. Result: Microsoft Access loaded in 2 or 3 seconds; Borland<br />

Paradox for Windows took 90 seconds to get running. Because of something<br />

th<strong>at</strong> Microsoft knew th<strong>at</strong> Borland did not know. And th<strong>at</strong>’s one of a million<br />

examples.<br />

Now Microsoft has forgotten all these things, and they’ve hired a lot of<br />

morons th<strong>at</strong> don’t know these things anymore. I think th<strong>at</strong> now Microsoft is<br />

kind of a big tar pit where you can barely move forward because there’s so<br />

much bureaucracy. But I learned a lot.<br />

Livingston: There were only 5,000 people back then, right?<br />

Spolsky: Right, 1,000 of whom were developers. 200 were program managers.<br />

I was a program manager. I was working on Excel, which was really <strong>at</strong> the heart<br />

of the company, other than Windows and DOS, so it was really cool.<br />

Livingston: Wh<strong>at</strong> do you think makes a good hacker?<br />

Spolsky: I think wh<strong>at</strong> makes a good hack is the observ<strong>at</strong>ion th<strong>at</strong> you can do<br />

without something th<strong>at</strong> everybody else thinks you need. To me, the most elegant<br />

hack is when somebody says, “These 2,000 lines of code end up doing the<br />

same thing as those 2 lines of code would do. I know it seems complic<strong>at</strong>ed, but<br />

arithmetically it’s really the same.” When someone cuts through a lot of crap<br />

and says, “You know, it doesn’t really m<strong>at</strong>ter.”

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