SEXIS WRONG

ing a female dog’s cunt. And they’re very interested also
in being fucked by an animal. Either male or female. In
terms of porn—what a lot of people get is the Color Climax-style
Danish porn, which is very straight-oriented.
It’s basically, “A bunch of bored women can’t get guys,
so they turn to the pet.” Yawn. But then again, it could
be quite a hot thing. Most of the porn out there is really
designed for what I feel is a straight male audience.
When I say “shape-shifting,” I also mean a form of dropping
your guard, of letting whatever comes along happen.
But you have to be careful, because obviously, there’s
the boundary issue. In the early days, I may have let a
particular dog that I was with—I may have let him go a
little bit too far, but that for me was a learning process,
anyway. What happened is that I was with a friend’s dog,
and he was—let’s just say he was a little bit too big for
me! [Laughter.]
He was really digging his claws in
and getting quite insistent.
I can’t really speak for other zoos, because, quite frankly,
each zoo is different. We’ve each come to it in our own
ways. That would be the case with gay people or with
people into S/M. I think each person’s case is individual.
I know I’m bisexual in human terms, as well, so I think
it’s fairly natural to be bisexual with animals, as well. I
really see it as life, as interacting with living creatures,
with communicating in ways that don’t necessarily require
language. And that’s really, really—kind of frightening,
and also amazing. You realize that there’s this whole
universe of communication in front of you that you’ve not
been aware of.
Bill: It seems to verge on the spiritual component that you
mentioned earlier.
Bill: So he was mounting you.
Clive: Well, yeah. And he was digging his claws into my sides,
and I think this may have been my first-ever sadomasochistic
experience. He was really digging his claws in and
getting quite insistent, and though I was aware of how
the dog’s penis is, which is a sheath and then a bulbous
piece. Now, the bulbous piece actually swells up, just
as they’re about to come for the final time. It’s a device
that locks the male into the female’s vulva, and where
they’re connected, and then they stay there for
a while. Then the swelling goes down, and he
detaches. It’s actually a device to ensure that
no sperm is wasted.
He was a Weimaraner—a beautiful dog—but he was big.
Back then, of course, I didn’t have access to wonderful
things like Astroglide or Probe or even K-Y—
Bill: All of that works with animals, huh?
Clive: It’s very spiritual. I derive a tremendous spiritual sense
from it. And over the years, it’s developed into something
that’s really my own. But it does involve an almost
shamanic level of shape-shifting, of spirit-shifting, of
opening up to spirits of creatures, or offering yourself to
the animal in question. It is very spiritual. It is definitely a
way of communing with natural forces, without a doubt.
Bill: How would you define “shape-shifting”?
Clive: “Shape-shifting” is a technique whereby people who
practice it can take on, if not necessarily the physical
form, then the immediate spiritual mindset—the mindset
of, for example, a fox, or of whatever.
Bill: It sounds like a really intense form of empathy, maybe.
Clive: Yeah, yeah. It’s effectively dropping down what makes
us civilized beings, what makes us human, and really trying
to cast away with all that tosh, with all that rubbish.
And really just being what we all are anyway, which is
animals. The only thing that separates us from the animal
kingdom is our sheen of civilization. You lose that, and
you’re no different.
Clive: Oh, yeah. In fact, it’s essential with female dogs, because
male dogs come all the time, and that’s actually
where you can spot the bad porn, by the way—people
who’ve never had sex with a dog often write things like,
“And then he came!” And it’s like, no, no, he’s been
coming for at least ten minutes, if he was really there.
And the process of the dog coming all the time provides
lubricant for the bitch. So you really have to lube up if
you’re with a bitch.
This dog was just inside me, and then all of a sudden, I
felt him expand [laughs], and we got kind of locked for
a few minutes, and I think it was probably a mixture of
my tightness, but he was digging in, and I couldn’t really
do much about it, other than to discover pain in a sexual
context with animals for the first time! [Laughter.] It was
a very intense experience. So that was a case of not
knowing boundaries. But I look back on it fondly. Happy
memories.
Bill: How do you deal with the moral issue of engaging in sex
with other people’s animals? They might not consent to it if
they knew it was going on.
Clive: Well, it’s between me and the animal. They may have
138 EVERYTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT SEX IS WRONG