January 2002 - July 2006 - The Jerry Quarry Foundation

costs knowing that. I have seen Cleve at his peak and know how vulnerable Floyd
was to a knockout. Terreible terrible stylistic matchup for Patterson.
Patterson was a better fighter, but would lose to Williams more than half the
time. Trust me.|
|1/6/05 02:56:06 PM|Noam|same||hsgagf||||10|Pre the 1970s the managers had more
of a hold on fighters than they do today. Cus was a very dominant man, as
television interviews of him show, and he would be the type that would insist on
getting his own way.Don't forget that when Cus was in charge, Tyson
never got in trouble. He was so tightly controlled by Cus that he wouldn't have
dared.While I agree that Patterson was the champion and could fight who
he wanted, the fact is that Cus was one of the most dominating and even
intimidating managers in boxing history. The same was true with Marciano
and Al Weill. Marciano hated Weill, and often disagreed with Weill's decisions,
but he NEVER fought anyone that Weill didn't want. Weill pulled all the strongs,
just like Cus.In the end, it doesn't really matter. If Cus was avoiding
certain fighters, then he was doing it on Patterson's behalf. Therefore
Patterson condoned what he did and has to live with the consequences either
way.I think it's also true to say that Ali had an effect on the fighter-
trainer relationship. Ali made the fighter more dominant. He was such a strong
personality that he controlled his destiny and as his career rolled on he alone
selected opponents. From Ali onwards fighters took more control of their
careers. |
|1/6/05 03:04:08 PM|Angelo|Washington, DC||funktron@yahoo.com||||10|Noam: Good
point. Look at Holmes-Richie Gichetti (Spelling?). It's routine now for
fighters to fire managers/trainers but back in the 60's, it wasn't. I know that
in the late 70's, Shavers freed himself from his manager and picked a new one
for a time. And yes, it was Ali who bucked the system and made it a point to
speak his mind and be his own man. Especially with the racial climate, some
hated him, others respected him for standing up to the staus quo. Certainly,
many black people felt empowerment thorough Ali's strength. |
|1/6/05 03:16:17 PM|John Gerard|NYC||rock289z@yahoo.com||||10|I think Jake
LaMotta was an exception to the manager domination rule though. Jake was his own
man.|
|1/6/05 03:34:48 PM|Kent|La Habra, Ca||kentallenent@aol.com||||10|John, I see
your's and others' points about Patterson not being a robot controlled by Cus
and I think you used the correct term the second time when you question
Patterson's credentials as a true champion. I disagree completely with
any referrence to Patterson being a coward in any way, shape, or form. Most of
the time a coward doesn't get in the ring. Again, I will say it takes guts to
get in the ring to fight anyone as anything can happen at any time.I
like the Rocky movies because although the boxing scenes are not realistic, the
interplay between Rocky and his manager, Mickey, are a lot like a real life
situation as in Floyd and Cus. In Rocky 111, Cus is avoiding having Rocky fight
Clubber Lang because Lang is too dangerous. Rocky takes the fight anyway
because he doesn't want to feel like he took the easy way out.The scene
where Rocky asks Mickey if the ten title defenses were set ups (fixed) and
Mickey tells him, no they weren't set ups, they were handpicked. That he took
the fights for Rocky that were safer to keep him healthy. This scene reminds
me very much of Cus and Floyd in real life. Mickey, like Cus was for Floyd, was
a father figure for Rocky.Cus also managed Jose Torres, who won the
light heavyweight title.My question to John and the others who question
Patterson being a true champion, if Patterson had taken fights with Folley, C.
Williams, Machen (ealier than he did), or Liston (earlier than he did); and he
had lost his title to any of these fighters, would you have more respect for
Patterson as a champion?|
|1/6/05 03:38:08 PM|Kent|La Habra, Ca||same as before||||10|I meant Mickey in
Rocky 111 is avoiding having Rocky fight Clubber Lang, not Cus. See how real