January 2002 - July 2006 - The Jerry Quarry Foundation

hitters.After Joe fought Ali in 1971 (at the young age of 27), the only
victories he could muster after then were against Daniels, Stander, Ellis, and
Cumming. Hardly a hall of fame achievement. Fan, the facts speak for
themselves. You didn't need to sit in the stadium cheering for Joe fighting
Ellis in Australia, or Daniels and Stander in Hickville, to realize that he was
ducking punchers in more important places. And, by the way, hindsight is usually
more accurate and considered as the emotion of the moment doesn't get in the
way.|
|3/1/05 05:46:29 PM|Noam|same||same||||10|Two corrections to my last post.
Firstly, it should read that Frazier's management didn't take fights against big
punchers that they didn't have to take.Secondly, after Frazier beat Ali
in 1971, his only subsequent victories were Daniels, Stander, Bugner, Quarry,
and Cumming. As I said, hardly hall of fame stuff !By the way, as I've
said often, I am no Ali lover. I am happy to debate flaws I believe that Ali
had. But I just happen to believe that Ali is one of three of the best of all
time, while facts and statistics and personal observations say that Frazier is
well down the list.|
|3/1/05 09:14:55 PM|Original Fan|Fandom||Fan@Fandom.com||||10|Well New Fan you
seem to be pretty knowledgable so you can take my name as I am officially
signing off. This Fan's job is done..........|
|3/1/05 09:24:34 PM|angelo|dc||funktron@yahoo.com||||10|Yes, as they say,
hindsight is 20/20. We know that everyone was captivated by Ali-Frazier I., and
looked forward to the rematch. The talk was Ali-Frazier---and nothing else. No
one was talking about Joe ducking big punchers. Of course, after Foreman
bounced him around like a ping pong ball and dropped him like a sack of potatoes
six times, Frazier was exposed as someone who would have trouble against any big
puncher---especially someone phycially imposing. It was already known and
talked about that he was a slow starter. Now, you had the double whammy of slow
starter and clearly vulnerable to someone with a punch. We know that the world
was still fixated on Frazier-Ali, even when neither of them had the crown. Why
else would Wide World of Sports spend an entire program with these two joining
Cosell in the studio? So no, no one talked about Shavers, Lyle or Joe facing
Norton. And that reminds me, Ali's jaw was swollen, but not broken after the
first Frazier fight, as a previous poster claimed. Sure, Norton broke Ali's
jaw, and curiously, Lucky Joe didn't face Norton and Norton didn't face him---
they were such good pals---Kenny N and Little Buddy. But now, in perspective, it
seems clear that after the Foreman fiasco, they stayed clear of big hitters and
focused on preserving Joe's record, pride and health by not sticking him in with
someone like Lyle. |
|3/2/05 03:40:43 AM|Noam|same||same||||10|AngeloYes, Ali's jaw was
swollen after the first Frazier fight, but Frazier was the more banged up. I
understand that he spent a month or so in hospital and, as we now know, he
hardly fought at all in the years that followed. Frazier was never the
same again after that fight. Even so, he won it, fair and square and it was
something for him to be proud of.In any case, some of you guys ridiculed
my suggestion that Shavers and Lyle could hold a candle to Smokin' Joe. So I ask
the question again:If someone named Mike Bruce could knock down an in
prime Frazier, and if Bonavena could twice knock down an in prime Frazier and
almost knock him out, why is it so ridiculous to suggest that murderous punchers
like Shavers and Lyle could knock a past prime Frazier out ?Please don't
ignore the question, Frazier lovers, as it is relevant and fair. Thanks.|
|3/2/05 05:14:58 AM|Massimo |Roma||Garibaldi-Mazzini-Cavour.com||||10|Yes,
Frazier was more vulnerable to punches than Ali' (was), but I want to point out
that not many fighters in boxing history could have taken George Foreman's and
Ernie Shavers's best shots. Even George Chuvalo would have been killed by
Foreman if the referee hadn't wisely stopped the fight. Quite surprisingly
Gregorio "Goyo" Peralta took well some unbelievable bombs from Foreman in their