January 2002 - July 2006 - The Jerry Quarry Foundation

first fight. Probably Oliver Mc Call, never down in his professional career,
would have withstood also (or too). |
|3/2/05 06:34:15 AM|Kent|La Habra, Ca||Kentallenent@aol.com||||10|Noam, of
course it is possible Frazier could have been knocked out by Shavers or Lyle.
The point you seem to miss time and time again is in the relevent time period,
Frazier would have likely faced at least one of those fighters in order to get a
title shot but they both lost to Jerry Quarry and he beat Quarry to get his
title shot.Again, comparing Frazier's career to Ali's, the greatest of
all time is not quite fair as one of the reasons Ali is the greatest is he did
things other fighters never did and few could measure up to his standards,
Frazier included. I have acknowledged time and time again that Ali was the
greatest and I have never said otherwise. Ali, in my opinion, is clearly better
than Frazier was but Frazier was great also. I never even heard of Lyle
or Shavers before 1973, they are much better known after the fact and after they
accomplished more later in their careers, when Frazier's career was winding down
or when he was off of the scene and the majority of the public was, like me, not
calling for Frazier to fight either of them. We were more interested in an Ali
rematch, even when Joe had lost the title to Foreman. I first heard of
Lyle when I read in a boxing magazine that he had beaten Buster Mathis and Larry
Middleton and I think I read an article about him that he had been in prison.
This was just before he fought Quarry. I first heard of Shavers when he
knocked out Ellis in one round, not before this. Interesting side note, Shavers
had lost to Ron Stander earlier in his career, the same Ron Stander who you
imply was a bum who didn't deserve a title shot but who was 22-1 going into his
fight with Frazier. I believe Stander had a lot of potential, which he showed
in giving Frazier a tough fight, which he never lived up to because of his
training habits. Ironic that before 1973, Stander did deserve a shot more than
Shavers as he beat Shavers.The Shavers/Ellis fight could have just as
easily turned out the other way around. As Ellis, who supposedly can't punch,
had landed some hard shots to Shavers head in that first round. Shavers was
obviously hurt and was wobbling, nearly going down from Ellis' punches when
Shavers, almost out of nowhere, landed a tremendous right uppercut that knocked
out Ellis cold. If Ellis had just landed maybe one or two punches more and he
didn't get hit with that uppercut, than he could have been the first round
knockout winner. |
|3/2/05 10:57:42 AM|Massimo|Roma||mihm.com||||10|Angelo "Ali's Cus" Dundee
called Jimmy Ellis the best one round knockout artist in the wordl at the time
of the Ali' fight as (or since,or because) he had a pretty long one round
knockouts streak. Probably Jimmy Ellis could hit at least as hard as Ali'.|
|3/2/05 01:22:49 PM|Fan|USA||yes||||10| There is no question that Ernie Shavers
could take anyone out, especially a slow starter who is right there like
Frazier, even in Joe's prime. Lyle, a bit more ponderous and less explosive
than Ernie, a little less likely. Ernie had better one punch power, in my
humble opinion, than even Foreman. I would also submit, that, to his
credit, Frazier was small heavyweight. Barely 6 feet tall, in his prime he
weighed 201, maybe 203. He probably could have made 190, which is bad news for
those who say Jerry would have ruled a Cruiserweight division. Guys like Ali,
Norton, and Lyle were much bigger men than average 60's and 70's heavy. They
were precursors of the modern heavies like Lewis and the Klitchkos. Same with
Tyson. For years he was killing guys who were twice his size. |
|3/2/05 02:25:09 PM|Noam|same||same||||10|KentI accept what you say
about Frazier fighting Quarry. Yes, Quarry had strung a few wins together at
that point. However, there would have been more Ali v Frazier fights, whether
Joe beat Quarry in that fight or not. Are you sure that it was an elimination
fight for the title ?Frazier could have fought Shavers and Lyle at
another point, but he didn't. He could have had the tune-up against Shavers or
Lyle who at that point had strung a few losses up. Instead Joe decided on having