January 2002 - July 2006 - The Jerry Quarry Foundation

and who fought very well, ahead on the scorecards after five rounds only to be
stopped by Frazier in the ninth round.I do acknowledge Frazier, because
of his style, only had so many fights in him but I stick by my position that it
is entirely possible that the management of fighters like Shavers and Lyle
before 1975 could have very possibly avoided signing to fight Frazier as they
didn't want to put good prospects in over their heads and that when both lost to
Quarry, their managers thought they were not ready for Frazier and when they
were ready, Frazier was no longer around.Using expert testimony is an
legitimate logical argument and again, long time referee and boxing official Lou
Filippo said people avoided Frazier, not the other way around. |
|6/29/05 12:38:46 AM|Kent|Murrieta, Ca||kentallenent@aol.com||||10|Add on to my
last post, in the four year period before Frazier/Ellis 2, Ellis had losses, in
addition to Lyle, he lost to Ali and Shavers, so yes they did think he was a
viable opponent. Almost all of the fighters you named did fight Ellis
too!!The Ali/Ellis fight was competitive for a while but Ali wore him
down for a twelth round TKO. In the Shavers/Ellis fight, Shavers did win by
first round knockout but before the knockout, Ellis had Shavers wobbling and
hurt from a combitnation to the head but Shavers came back with a huge uppercut
that knocked Ellis out. If Ellis had just landed one or two more punches,
Shavers would have been the one knocked out. Noam, watch the fight, Shavers was
hurt.|
|6/29/05 02:11:45 AM|Noam|same||same||||10|KentI made a mistake; I
wasn't playing with the facts, as you said, imputing that I was somehow telling
an untruth.The below was Ellis's record immediately before the second
Frazier fight:March 1, 1975 KO by 9 FrazierNov 12, 1974
L 10 BugnerJul 16, 1974 L 12 LyleMar 4, 1974 D 10
MiddletonDec 12, 1973 L 10 KirkmanOct 23, 1973 KO 7
JonesJun 18, 1973 KO by 1 ShaversWhat I meant to say was that
Ellis hadn't won his last 4 fights, not the last 4 years. An obvious mistake
Kent, but you took some leap of logic happy to accuse me of "playing with
facts".And if you think Ellis was a viable opponent based on the above
facts, then give yourself an uppercut. You deserve one.Ellis's record as
shown above in the period before the second Frazier fight stinks. He was beaten
by Lyle, Bugner, Kirkman, and Shavers, yet Frazier doesn't fight them - he
fights the loser. That says it all, doesn't it.You didn't answer my
other questions about who fought Daniels and Standers. Lyle and Shavers didn't
fight them. Foreman fought Daniels in an exhibition fight but he wasn't matched
with Standers. Norton ko'd Stander in 5 in 1976 but he didn't fight Daniels.
Quarry didn't fight Stander or Daniels. Ali fought Daniels in an
exhibition in 1972 on the same day that he fought four other guys. He didn't
fight Standers.So I'm trying to work out why Frazier fought Daniels in
January 1972 and Stander in May 1972. Do you think the other guys were ducking
Daniels and Stander or was Joe just taking the easy way out. |
|6/29/05 08:47:42 AM|Forest Ward|NYC||NYG||||10|Noam, don't put your thoughts
into my words. I thought I made my self perfectly clear. I did not say Frazier
ducked anyone. I did not say Frazier's handlers "protected" Frazier.What
I said was that Ali was mismanaged. His managers had him taking fights he should
not have taken. If I am to believe you, you apparently agree with me. You wrote
to the effect that you noticed brain damage in Ali before the Foreman
fight.Noam you and Angelo among others keep using the word "ducked" when
refering to Frazier and the list of his possible opponents. You and the others
constantly ignore the rankings and the records of the opponents of that time
period when you say Frazier "ducked" these opponents. Quite frankly, I find your
prattle boring. The only reason I am responding now is because you are attaching
my name to things I have not said.Finally, once again even you yourself
claim that you notice brain damge in Ali in 1974 yet he continued fighting tough
opponents for approximately 5 more years. It does not make sense if he is brain