January 2002 - July 2006 - The Jerry Quarry Foundation

a hopeless novice. Frazier's resume has too many big holes to be
accepted in the same league as Louis, Marciano, and Ali.To be honest,
Joe was lucky that a mistake by the referee prevented him being ko'd by Ali in
the second fight. Without the ref's error, Ali would have stopped Joe twice.|
|2/15/05 04:29:51 AM|Massimo |Roma||4||||10|Frazier had already recovered and
was not in big trouble anymore when the referee separated the two fighters in
the second round of their second fight. Ali' wouldn't have stopped Frazier, Joe
was punching back, he was not helpless. Years later I heard Ali' admitting that
he was not going to stop Frazier and Ali has never been a humble guy. Frazier
would have been favored (or the favored one) against Earnie Shavers. Don't
forget that Ron Stander knocked Shavers out, while Frazier did beat Stander. THE
SECOND ALI-FRAZIER fight was VERY VERY CLOSE, IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN SCORED A DRAW,
IF ALI' WON, IT WAS BY 1 POINT. THE THIRD FIGHT WAS A MASSACRE FOR BOTH FIGHTERS
WITH ALI' PROBABLY 1 or al massimo 2 POINTS AHEAD AFTER 14 ROUNDS.|
|2/15/05 08:36:22 AM|Angelo|Washington, DC||funktron@yahoo.com||||10|Massimo:
The Ron Stander point doesn't hold water. Foreman blew out Norton and Ali KOed
Foreman---but that didn't mean that Ali would walk over Norton. Shavers raw
punching power was a challenge for any heavy to withstand. If Frazier mixed it
up with Shavers, I believe Shavers would win by early knockout. As for Lyle, I
think he could beat Frazier the way that Foreman did----not quite as easily, but
he could get it done. No doubt Frazier beat some good fighters, including Ali
and Quarry, but his career maker was Ali I. Without that, he'd be just another
good fighter. Beating Ali and especially knocking him down is what made his
legend. Kent: You make valid points about why Frazier wasn't matched against
some of the guys I mentioned, but it's all too convenient. I could see not
fighting ALL of them, but come on, not fighting ANY of them??? There's a
reason, or an excuse, for it "never happening" against a bunch of dangerous 70's
fighters that Frazier never stepped in with. I believe that staying out of that
tournament was a precursor of things to come. Frazier didn't have a stellar
group of title defenses, did beat Ali, was destroyed by Foreman, then seemed to
save himself by cherry picking his fights. Sure, if you can do what he did, why
not? But the way he was deposed by Foreman, then losing the rematch to Ali---he
wasn't so marquis anymore. At that point, a former champ has to prove himself
again. Instead, he bided time and fought people he had already been in with
instead of looking elsewhere. You've pointed out that taking on Quarry again
was courageous because Quarry beat Lyle and Shavers. But by '75, Lyle was
fighting Ali for the title. Surely, he had earned the right to meet Frazier.
These guys won some, lost some, but all seemed to fight eachother at some point,
except for Joe. Come on, Ali, Lyle, Shavers, Norton, Foreman---most of these
guys faced one another at some point, except Joe was very cautious compared to
the others. Hey, I'm a Pennsylvania native and loved the Philly fight scene and
Frazier was a stud back in the day. And by the way, Marvis was soundly beaten
by Tyson and Holmes, but Marvis could fight. Frazier was a top heavy of his
time---but surely, he's not in the top five ever. |
|2/15/05 10:20:09 AM|Massimo
|Roma||shaqisstilldunking@shaqisbetterthanjabbar.com||||10|Angelo-I
think that Frazier until 1975 was a great fighter not far behind his 1971
version. In 1974 he fought a great fight against Ali' where he won many rounds
and costrinse Ali' to hold him very often throughout the entire fight, then he
did beat Jerry Quarry. In 1975 Joe was part of the greatest heavyweight fight of
all time. At that time he was not anymore the fighter he used to be, his weight
was 215 instead of 203 and his eyes were deteriorated, but I think he was still
one hell of a fighter. However, I agree with you that Frazier couldn't take a
punch as well as Ali' or Chuvalo, but still I believe that he had a top
heavyweight chin. I have both Ali' and Foreman above Frazier in the heavyweight
history, but I think Joe Frazier is a top tenner. I'm not that sure that Joe
Louis would have beaten him. Louis had trouble against Billy Conn, Tommy Farr