January 2002 - July 2006 - The Jerry Quarry Foundation

six title defenses.|
|3/16/05 06:08:11 AM|Massimo |Roma||4||||10|Some fighters are more durable than
others, that's for sure. Joe Frazier was not the same man after 15 rounds with
Ali' when,heck, Archie Moore fought almost 300 fights, including some very good
heavyweights (Marciano,Valdes,Baker,Lavorante,Cassius Marcellus Clay etc.). |
|3/16/05 07:15:19 AM|John Gerard|NYC||rock289z@yahoo.com||||10|Kent -- the
reason why a young George Foreman never fought Liston was that both men were
managed by Dick Saddler who obviously did not want either one to loose.|
|3/16/05 07:15:24 AM|John Gerard|NYC||rock289z@yahoo.com||||10|Kent -- the
reason why a young George Foreman never fought Liston was that both men were
managed by Dick Saddler who obviously did not want either one to loose.|
|3/16/05 10:25:00 AM|Kent|La Habra, Ca||kentallenent@aol.com||||10|John, you
miss my point. I was playing "devils advocate" by showing we can make the same
arguments the Frazier critics are using concerning Joe avoiding all punchers
with another fighter, in this case Foreman. I really don't believe
Foreman was avoiding punchers like Liston. That he, like Frazier, picked
opponents for other reasons besides avoiding a group of fighters because of a
certain skill they had in common. I think both fighters, in general, fought
certain opponents to make the most money in the long run.Sure Frazier
because of his style and training habits in the gym, ie the Philadelphia gym
wars, was limited to the number of fights he had in him but I don't believe he
avoided all big punching heavyweights but that he if there was more money in it
for him, he would have fought the fighters in question.When speaking of
Foreman, I am talking about the first phase of his career. When he was older,
ten years after his first retirement, he did face pure punchers Tommy Morrison
and Gerry Cooney, losing to Morrison, who fought more like a boxer verses George
by back pedaling and jabbing, and beating Cooney by knocking out Cooney after
nearly going down from a huge Cooney left hook. |
|3/16/05 03:09:19 PM|Howard
C.|Louisville||howardc@louisville||||10|KentI understand that you are
trying to explain the omissions in Joe's resume by saying, "Hey guys Foreman
didn't fight everyone either." Well, Kent, that wasn't the argument. The topic
was Frazier. Anyway, I don't agree with your comments.Foreman shocked
the world by beating Frazier in January 1973. George thought he was bullet proof
and he then knocked out Jose Roman (yes, Kent, an easy one) and then in March
1974 he knocked out Norton (a hard one). The much harder one against Ali
followed in October 1974.That was a shocking loss for Joe. It sapped his
confidence. He took 1975 off fighting exhibitions and when he came back he
wasn't dodging anyone. Foreman beat Lyle in January 1976 and Frazier in June
1976.By then Foreman was personally struggling and we know that after
the Young defeat in March 1977 he was seeing visions and other things that made
him join the church and he didn't fight again for 10 years.After Foreman
beat Frazier in the first fight, he had another nine fights. His opponents
included Norton, Ali, Frazier, and Lyle. Gee, that's not too bad, is it, Kent ?
After all, Frazier never fought Lyle or Norton. He ducked them.Kent asks
about Marciano v Foreman and I say this. Marciano had a greater capacity for
aborbing punishment than Joe did. I think that would be the big difference
because Marciano was capable of pushing Foreman into the later rounds and
Frazier wasn't.In the later rounds, Marciano, in my view, was capable
of taking Foreman (who lacked stamina) out with his huge right (followed by an
elbow, of course). I can't be sure that Rocky would win, because George was such
a murderous puncher. But Rocky's 49 nil record grants him the benefit of
the doubt, while Joe's 32-4-1 record doesn't give him the right to any
presumptions. In fact, quite the opposite. To me, comparing Marciano to
Frazier is like comparing chalk with cheese. Marciano won 100 % of his fights,
Joe only 86 %. Rocky never got stopped. Joe got stopped three times. Ones a
legend; the other doesn't deserve to be.Kent also asks about Foreman not