January 2002 - July 2006 - The Jerry Quarry Foundation

and Tony Galento ! I love his 1970 fight against Ellis. What a fight it was !
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|2/15/05 11:51:53 AM|Kent|La Habra, Ca||Kentallenetc.||||10|Some of you guys
miss the point that Shavers and Lyle didn't established themselves as bone fide
contenders until 1975 and later and Frazier was more or less out of the scene in
1975 after his one last big fight against Ali. He tried his one last hurrah,
his ill fated second fight with Foreman, hardly taking it easy by doing this but
I think everyone agrees Frazier was no longer a factor by that point, the point
when he would have had to face Shavers and Lyle, who had emerged.The
fact that Frazier fought someone like Stander is champions get a couple of token
defenses and Frazier didn't expect to lose his title so soon. I also would like
to point out that Stander actually had a win over Shavers and I don't believe
Shavers in the period of 1975 and after would have ever lost to Stander but the
pre 1975 Shavers did lose to him. So why would Shavers early in his career have
deserved to fight Frazier in a title elimination fight if at that point he
couldn't even beat a token title challenger? Lyle, before the Quarry
fight, did have a couple of good wins over decent fighters like Buster Mathis
and Larry Middleton but he too had bigger wins over Bonevena, Ellis, Shavers,
Bugner, his good showing against Ali for the title, and his magnificent brawl in
a loss to Foreman in the period after Frazier was no longer a factor.
The key is timing and by 1974 Frazier was only obligated to face the
best fighter available and that was Jerry Quarry who had beaten both Lyle and
Shavers. Again! both of these fighters lost the chance for a title elimination
fight with Frazier and Quarry earned it by beating both of them!It is
all about when things happened and this is why I don't believe Frazier avoided
these fighters. |
|2/15/05 12:19:23 PM|Angelo|Washington, DC||funktron@yahoo.com||||10|Fair
enough---we might have to agree to disagree. As I said, your points about
timing are legitimate, but I've never bought into the theory of having to "prove
yourself" to take on a former champion. In fact, former champions have to prove
THEMSELVES, if they're looking to get back to the title. Kent, based on your
idea that guys like Shavers and Lyle didn't "earn" the right to fight FORMER
CHAMPION Frazier, then Muhammad Ali shouldn't have ever fought Ken Norton. What
exactly did Norton do to "deserve" a shot at former champion Ali? Norton was a
big, muscular guy who was dangerous, but he hadn't consistently beaten top
fighters. Still, as a former champion, Ali was fighting his way back and taking
all comers. He took on Norton and had his jaw broken, lost, and then had to
fight Frazier, Norton again, and others. Again, it seems as though Joe was
walking on eggshells, not staying active, not taking on everyone he could have
and should have. It was so fortunate for Frazier that Quarry took out Shavers--
-as he had already beaten Quarry and had the style to beat him again. Lucky
Joe. As for Lyle: Quarry beat him, but enough time had elapsed that Frazier
COULD HAVE taken a Lyle fight. Of course, he could have also taken a Norton
fight, but we know that he had his reasons for not doing so. My point is that
he had reasons for staying out of the tournament in the 60's and then had
reasons for staying out of the ring against some big bruisers five years later.
Yes Massimo, he probably ranks Top Ten, or very close. He doesn't come near the
top five and I believe Joe Louis accomplished a lot more. |
|2/15/05 12:44:24 PM|Massimo |Roma||4||||10|Angelo-When Ali' fought
Norton the first time he just didn't know that Kenny was dangerous. Ken was a
bum in his book, at the time. In fact, Ali' trained very poorly for the first
Norton fight.Ken Norton is a top 20 heavyweight in my book ( different from
Ali's book).|
|2/15/05 01:59:51 PM|Angelo|Washington, DC||funktron@yahoo.com||||10|Exactly my
point. Ali was fighting someone who most observers didn't think had "earned"
anything. Ali was staying busy and might have thought he was still elite and
Norton was one step up from amateur---but the fact remains that Norton was a 220