January 2002 - July 2006 - The Jerry Quarry Foundation

they were not number one contenders and the world wasn't holding it's breath for
Ali to give either a title shot. And again, the world didn't demand Ali-Norton
I. either. Ali took that fight because he thought he could get some good work
in against a strong guy, without losing. Instead, he had his jaw broken and
gave Norton a place in history. But the fact is, Ali could have taken on
someone he had already beaten, or someone with no knockout power. Instead, he
challenged himself. Frazier didn't seem to like challenging himself in the same
way. The record and time frame points to facts, not just my opinion. |
|2/21/05 09:54:10 AM|Angelo|Washington, DC||funktron@yahoo.com||||10|Kent: One
more thing---if you go back through our posts, it's startling to see how many
times you and some others have used the phrases, something along the lines of
"Frazier didn't need to fight this guy." or "Frazier didn't have to take that
fight." or "There was no need for Frazier to fight him." Look, unlike the NFL,
NBA, MLB, etc., there's no season, no automatic schedule for boxers to meet
eachother. It's usually all about individual contracts between individual
managements. Usually, nobody "must" fight someone else. Most of the fights
happen by choice, unless a Champion is told he'll lose his title if he doesn't
defend against #1.Of course Frazier didn't "need" to fight the bunch of
contenders he never fought against. But you look at others who fought in his
era, especially Ali, and they seemed to take on all comers, while he didn't. As
for his style shortening his career and making him a non-factor by 1976, I can
go along with that. But then I'll say that in the grand scheme of things, his
straight ahead style loses him points on the "all time great" list because it
compromised his longevity. Marciano had 49 fights, 49 wins and retired
undefeated Champion. Please don't say that he had an abbriviated career because
his style was like Frazier's. He knew when to get out, and left without a loss.
Frazier was a year out from his greatest accomplishment when Foreman put him on
the seat of his pants six times in six minutes. Frazier was great against guys
who were more tactical than powerful, because he was able to be the aggressor
and force the action. If he tried to come straight ahead against a bigger guy
with a lot of power, it made him vulnerable. He certainly wasn't good at
fighting while backpeddling, so he was one-dimenisonal and couldn't adapt. He
tried to adapt in his second fight against Foreman. I have this fight on tape,
and am always impressed by Frazier's courage in trying to change things up a
little to keep Foreman off balance. Frazier's confidence grew with a good
(third?) round, but then things normalized and Foreman blew him out. I have to
believe that a guy like Lyle, who could take a wallop and fight back (like he
did against Shavers and Foreman) would not back down to Frazier's pressure.
Frazier would get tagged repeatedly if he tried to bear down on Lyle. It would
be a short war, but I could see Lyle winning it. As for Shavers, even though he
hit harder than Lyle, I could see Frazier getting to him first, possibly.
Still, even a 1973 Shavers would have the capacity to take out Frazier by
blasting away in the first or second round. |
|2/21/05 10:46:45 AM|Massimo |Roma||4||||10|I made a google search and,
although it hurts me a little, I think what I found out shows that Kent, Forest
and myself probably were wrong. These are the RING MAGAZINE RANKINGS
(1967-1975):1967) Frazier n.2, Terrell n.11 Quarry n.61968) Frazier
n.2, Chuvalo n.5, Quarry n.71969) Frazier n.2, Quarry n.4, Mac Foster n.6,
Henry Cooper n.101970) Frazier n.1, Quarry n.5, Mac Foster n.6, Henry
Cooper n.7, Chuvalo n.81971) Frazier n.1, Quarry n.3, Mac Foster
n.61972) Frazier n.1, Ron Lyle n.5, Ken Norton n.101973) Frazier n.3,
Quarry n.5, Ron Lyle n.6 Shavers n.71974) Frazier n.3, Lyle n.4, Quarry n.8,
Wepner (!) n.91975) Norton n.2, Frazier n.4, Lyle n.6, Shavers
n.7So, it's not true that Lyle and Shavers were not ranked heavyweights
until 1975. Ron Lyle was the n.5 in 1972, the n.6 in 1973 and the n.4 in 1974,
while Shavers was the n.7 in 1973 ( I mean at the end of those years). Why
didn't Frazier fight Lyle, Shavers, Cooper or Mac Foster ? For me, it's painful