January 2002 - July 2006 - The Jerry Quarry Foundation

today).However, how many guys were there that ducked drafting using
other excuses like shonky medical conditions or whatever ? They weren't all
brave like our very own Steve (and I DO mean that sincerely) who went and
fought.Frazier didn't go to the Vietnam War either. Yes, I know he was
married, but he still could have gone if he wanted to. By the way, how many kids
did Frazier have to how many different women. There were more than a few. If we
want to examine Ali's personal issues, perhaps we should go there as well. I
never heard of Ali bashing his girlfriend either, not like some.Now, to
Fan's question about Frazier standing in heavyweight history. Let me firstly say
that the Vietnam War was the luckiest thing that ever happened to Frazier's
boxing career. Why ? Because it took Ali off the scene for three long years. It
made him rusty and beatable.Without the Vietnam War, Frazier would have
fought Ali in 1968 or 1969 (if he didn't have fights arranged against Daniels or
Stander or John Lennon). In 1968 or 1969 Ali wasn't ring rusty. He beats Frazier
convincingly. Frazier becomes another Mathis or Ellis or speed bump in
heavyweight history. He would have been some boxing trivia question. Only hard
core boxing fans would have remembered him.Of course, after Ali's three
year lay off, Frazier beats him. His legend is set. On one fight.Angelo
did better than I can in listing the heavies who would have beaten Frazier, if
not every time, but most times. There are even a few that would have beaten him
every few times, if not most times. I'll add another one. Jersey Joe
Walcott. He was beating Marciano after 13 rounds. Marciano had to knock him out
to win. Frazier not even on his best night would have pushed Marciano that far.
Walcott was a very good heavyweight. In my opinion, he beats Frazier
convincingly, most times. I think Jack Johnson would beat Frazier also.
Frazier had trouble fighting 15 rounds (and even 5 rounds against big punchers).
Johnson (when he wasn't throwing fights) just kept on fighting. 15 rounds and
more and then some more. He was good enough to see Frazier off somewhere along
the way. You'd have needed a calculator to count the bumps on Joe's head and he
might have run out of skin, too.And remember this when you are scoffing
at my prediction. Johnson was much more dominant in his day than Frazier ever
was in his brief period in the sun. Translate Johnson's dominance to Frazier's
time, and it's good night Joe, in my opinion.We have to stop people
having selective memories about Frazier. Look at his first fight with Bonavena.
Oscar knocked him down twice in the second round. With a minute to go he only
had to knock Joe down a third time for the fight to be stopped (3 knock down
rule). Over that last minute Joe held on like hell. Much worse than Ali
ever did. Without the holding down, Joe gets stopped. As it was, Frazier got a
(disputed) split points decision. Oscar proved Frazier's vulnerability.
Frazier earned his place in history on one close win against a ring
rusty fighter. Put that fight aside, and what was his next best win ? Against
Jimmy Ellis, that's who. Disagree with me ? Okay, let's say Buster Mathis.
Wow.Fan, and everyone else, please answer me a question. Was the quality
of opposition Ali fought better in his 'first' or 'second' career ? ('first'
being pre-draft and 'second' post-draft). Thanks. |
|7/15/05 08:32:04 PM|Bob Bumbera |NC||renfbera@aol.com||||10|While there is no
doubt the Nation of Islam was a "White" hate group and Ali became it's poster
boy being sucked in by the racial divide in this country at the time, Ali has
long ago renounced the "White Man as Devil" theory of the Nation. Also, I am
not under the delusion that Ali is worthy of "Hero Worship" either. He was a man
full of contradictions. A member of the Nation of Islam he kept a white trainer
and personal doctor through out his career, much to the dismay of Elijah
Muhammad and his gold digging son Herbert. Ali was a flawed individual, as most
of us are, and although many of his choices in life may be viewed as suspect,
there is no doubt he was one of the most compelling figures of the Twentieth
Century. Ali was a flawed individual, as most of us are, and although many of
his choices in life may be viewed as suspect, there is no doubt he was one of