January 2002 - July 2006 - The Jerry Quarry Foundation

that he was then intentionally kept away from other power punchers. |
|7/3/05 05:12:14 PM|Massimo|Roma||spaghetti@pizza.com||||10|I think that Ernie
"Clay" Terrell would have given Frazier some problems by using his huge
advantage in reach and wiltness. I have seen Terrell next to Frazier on tape
just before the Frazier-Bonavena 1 fight started and Ernie made Joe look very
andre'. But I think Joe would have beaten Ernie on points or by late round
knockout. If Joe had asked Ernie "What's my name ?" I think Ernie would have
given the right answer this time.|
|7/3/05 07:29:19 PM|Angelo|dc||funktron@yahoo.com||||10|Massimo: Joe would have
his way with guys like Bunny Johnson, Jody Ballard, Duane Bobick, Scott LeDoux,
Leroy Caldwell--- he'd decision Tex Cobb, he'd KO Lorenzo Zanon like JQ did,
he'd squeak out wins over guys like Renaldo Snipes, Leon Spinks, David Bay,
maybe Greg Page---these were the category of fighters he loved to take on to
showcase his talent. He'd probably beat Norton. I think he'd have a very hard
time with Mike Weaver. He'd beat Michael Spinks, somehow. He'd lose to Leroy
Jones by decision. Jimmy Young could win a tough decision but it would be
close. Most of the time, Ali would beat him, Holmes would beat him. Foreman
did beat him. All in all, that's about where he ranks: Below the upper crust
by a comfortable margin, above the lower guys by a comfortable margin---above
the middle layer, but not by a whole lot. I believe Ron Lyle would have knocked
him senseless. I beleive Earnie Shavers MIGHT have knocked him out early---or
Frazier would have KOed Shavers in the middle to late rounds. However, this is
based on them fighting eachother around 1974. If you went prime vs. prime
(Frazier, say, 1970 vs. Shavers, 1977) I think Shavers would win. Shavers
matured as a fighter---became more disciplined, better trained, more patient---
by the time he was fighting Ali and Holmes ('77, '78, '79) he was capable of
conserving energy and pacing himself to go the distance. He still packed a
powerful punch that could and did get Ali and Holmes in a heap of trouble.
These guys could take a better punch than Frazier, especially Ali. Holmes was a
more clever boxer than Frazier, and had a knack for surviving a round after
someone dropped him, which apparently, wasn't easy for Frazier based on the
disasters against Foreman. Make no mistake about it---Foreman was some
finisher. But Jimmy Young showed how a slippery boxer could survive after being
staggered by Foreman. Frazier couldn't get it done. He was a deserving
Champion, not a fluke. But there are a lot of heavyweight champions and
contenders would have their way with him. There were too many holes in his
game. His handlers knew it and that's why we've been having this discussion
about him for it seems like the better part of six months. The fights were
never made because he was exposed as being vulnerable to a heavy puncher. I
know that there's some esoteric argument about a possibility that they avoided
him. I think that's too hard to swallow. They all fought eachother, so if one
guy was out of the mix, I point to his team as being responsible for the game of
"keep away." I think Noam said it: "If it waddles like a duck and quacks like
a duck, it's a duck." |
|7/3/05 07:57:45 PM|Noam|same||same||||10|If I recall rightly, the first Frazier
v Bonavena fight was a split decision. The result could have gone either way.
Joe was lucky not to have been knocked out by Bonavena anyway.Joe was
also nearly knocked out in the second fight with Ali, early on when the referee
made the mistake. Ali was not that hard a puncher and Bonavena was not renowned
as a huge hitter either.My point is, although we think that Frazier
would have beaten Terrell and Foster and Norton and Shavers and Lyle, we'll
never know because he didn't fight them. I'm confident that at least one
or two of those guys would have beaten Joe, especially after the first Ali
fight. I mean, if Bonavena can put Joe down twice (showing the first one wasn't
a fluke), then TIMBERS when he is in against Shavers and Lyle.My view is
that Joe was exposed for what he was when he fought Foreman. He was very
vulnerable against big punchers. So, whenever possible, he avoided them. Smart