January 2002 - July 2006 - The Jerry Quarry Foundation

takes a back seat to the other great ones. I think it's admirable to go up
against someone who has the ability and power to KO you---and find a way to win.
Ali did it against Liston and Foreman. Holmes did it against Shavers.
Holyfield did it against Tyson. Joe did it against Daniels. |
|2/18/05 11:02:26 AM|Massimo |Roma||4||||10|Angelo, I have to admit that you are
probably at least partially right. I don't know all the details of what happened
back then and why and how it happened but probably there is a part of truth in
what you are saying ! Angelo "The partial Truth". I wonder what Roadscholarette
from Chicago Illinois would have to say if she was still on this site ! Paul
from Sydney and Kookoo Clock would agree with you.|
|2/18/05 11:35:38 AM|Angelo|Washington, DC||funktron@yahoo.com||||10|RS would
tear me a new you know what. She was the biggest Frazier fan I've ever run
across. I have a love-hate with Smokin' Joe. He was humble enough back then---
a nice contrast to my favorite, Ali. Joe was a Philadelphia guy, and I love
Philly fighters. A friend of mine went to highschool with Marvis and said he
was a good guy---not full of himself and not a showboat just because his Dad was
famous. But I balance my respect for Frazier with the facts, and they show that
he was good, but we'll never know how good, because he didn't fight all comers
like some other Champions have done. He didn't fight often enough and he didn't
fight some of the monsters, even after he had lost his crown, in fact,
ESPECIALLY after he had lost his crown. At that point, he was exposed as a slow
starter who could be taken out by a heavier power puncher---and excuses/reasons
non withstanding, he or his management avoided power punchers like the plaque.
|
|2/18/05 12:12:15 PM|Kent|same||same||||10|Angelo, Joe Frazier at this best
would have beaten Shavers and Lyle. Both of them hit hard enough to hurt Frazier
but they were not as good a fighter as Foreman was and they also weren't the
finishers Foreman was even if they did hurt Joe. I could see Joe getting up
from an early knockdown(s), like he did against Bonevena, and taking the fight
to either of them to gain wins. A number of contenders went the distance
with Lyle, fighters such as Bonevena, Ellis, Bugner, and Scott Ledoux. I didn't
see all of these fights but I am sure at some point Lyle had them hurt as he
defeated all of them but he didn't finish them.That Foreman was a better
finisher than Shavers was can be shown that he likely would have finished Holmes
after that big knockdown, which Shavers couldn't do. Of course one could
argue that Foreman had Jimmy Young hurt in their fight and he couldn't get him
out of there but that was the only time in the first part of his career when
that happened.Another thing, if Jerry Quarry could stand there and trade
with Shavers and win, then I think Frazier could have done the same
thing.Frazier's career was winding down by the time they emerged as
contenders and as I pointed out before, during his best years, he did take on
all comers and he would have fought them back then if they were around then.
Also, as I pointed out to Noam, because of his style, Joe only had so many
fights in him so by 1975 he had his one last chance at the gold, which he
certainly did earn by beating Quarry, who I must point out was favored to win
their rematch going in, so Joe was hardly playing it safe.Noam, Frazier
didn't fight Floyd Patterson, who was still around, in his prime and I hardly
think Joe was avoiding him, probably the other way around! As for Cooper, as I
said, it would have been a terrible beating. The blood would have flowed!|
|2/18/05 01:57:44 PM|Angelo|Washington, DC||funktron@yahoo.com||||10|Kent: I
think that clearly, Fraizer was a workhorse who got better and better as a fight
wore into the later rounds. Conversely, Shavers, and to a lesser extent, Lyle,
had stamina issues. For this reason, Frazier would have a very good chance at
laying a beating on either of these guys if the fight progressed past the 6th or
7th round. That's when Joe would start smoking and Lyle/Shavers would wilt.
But I would still like to see it for myself. Hell, I'd like to see Frazier
press Kenny Norton and what that outcome would be. I'd like to see Frazier